Red Blood Boiling

[BaltimoreTerp]

Come on man. It's a joke that the owner of the O's is complimenting fans from other teams. It's an absolute joke.

You think Bischotti is going to compliment Steeler fans for coming to Baltiomore? LOL...In fact, Billick criticizes fans who sell their tickets for 10X face value to Pitt fans....but you know what, Brian Billick and Bischotti and the Ravens give fans a reason to go to the game.

If Ravens fans weren't going to the games, but Steelers fans were coming and selling the stadium out, sure he would. It's good business.

It isn't RIGHT, just like selling Red Sox items at the ballpark isn't RIGHT (although I'm pretty sure I've seen stuff from other teams when they are in town), but that isn't the point.

Roberts should go over and catch a Ravens game if he wants to see what kind of fans Baltimore has...or go watch Cal's induction speech. He's way out of line to blame the fans, which I'm not saying he definitely meant by that, but if he did, it's uncalled for and out of line.

Roberts is not out of line to blame the fans when he sees THOSE things, and then sees (and hears) 40,000 Red Sox fans give a Red Sox pitcher a standing ovation at Oriole Park. He sees that as the fans not supporting the players, and I would say he is correct.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Why is everyone straying off-topic?

We are NOT talking about whether or not the team has been bad.

We are NOT talking about whether or not the front office has made good decisions.

We are NOT talking about the owner's feelings about the team, the fans, or opposing fans.

We ARE, however, talking about other teams' fans invading our ballpark.

Any Orioles fan that can look at what we saw and heard today with anything other then pure humiliation is an embarrassment to the team as much as anything the team has done.

That doesn't make what the team has been any less bad. It makes what the fans are becoming that much less.

Do you believe that other teams' fans taking over Oriole Park is acceptable?

Your thinking about this like a 5 year old would, attacking the immediate problem rather than what caused the problem in the first place.

Decade of mismanagement-------> lack of fan interest ------> other fans taking over the ballpark. The end product is a result of the source. Everyone thinks this is atrocious, however some of us believe in stopping the entire cycle rather than throwing a band aid on the present.

P.S. I was at yesterday's game and was appalled, and I'm about to leave for today's game so don't think I'm a Sapper type person sitting back and *****ing. I wasn't mad at the fans though, I was just depressed about the background that led to this situation in the first place.

[charliec107]

I think the Orioles should lower ticket prices. I know compared to other teams ours are pretty low, bu cheaper prices make it so people can take their families and breed a new generation of O's fans. Think about it. 20K right now. Lower prices, even if they discount unsold tickets on the day of the game, more people will come. They get money from unsold seats that would have brought in $0. Add $8 for parking for every car. Then most people who come will buy food and/or merchandise. The increase in money spent in food and merchandise should make up for the ticket prices decreases. Unlikely scenario, but I think they should focus on just getting people, especially locals, into the Yard.

[JTrea81]

Here's the Sun's take:

Boston invasion

The Orioles sold out yesterday's game (their sixth sellout of the season) and have drawn 98,235 for the first two games of the Red Sox series. With only scattered single seats and standing room available for today's series finale, the Orioles said this will be the best-attended three-game series in Camden Yards history.

The good attendance news was mitigated somewhat by the fact that thousands of fans at the ballpark were wearing red.

Beckett said the Red Sox seem to draw lots of fans not only in Baltimore but other cities in the division, with the exception of New York. "It's hard to beat Tampa Bay. It seems like it's about 50-1. I don't know where they [Red Sox fans] get all those tickets."

The Boston fans' presence seemed even more pronounced than usual yesterday. During the crowd's rendition of "Take Me Out to the Ballgame," it seemed more people than not yelled, "root, root, root for the Red Sox."

Orioles spokesman Bill Stetka had no comment on the throng of Red Sox fans.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.osnotes12aug12,0,3609348.story

That last sentence is the root of the problem. In order to fix the problem you have to admit it is a problem first - something the Orioles refuse to do and the reason why I won't attend a Sox/O's game at Camden until they do...

[Rex Thunder]

A baseball fan? I find no evidence of this at all.

It's like calling him a labor union supporter. You will find little evidence of this anymore as well.

I went to Detroit last season in an O's jersey. Fans were very supportive there. They were more interested in finding out what happened to the O's rather than getting on me.

Classy fans there IMHO.

Just a quick observation. People here seem to generalize based on limited contact with fans. Everey person on this planet are made up of different marbles. I find most fanso f most teams to be pretty respectful.

Football, baseball, basketball- for the most part- friendly people are friendly people- and assholes in real life, are asshole fans- no matter what stadium they happen to be in. I've been to Yankee and Red Sox games at Camden Yards the past 3 years- and I actually- with the exception of one 12 year old kid who just didn't know any better- thought they were all surprisingly respectful. Yeah they cheered for their team- which in itself is irking, but they weren't all that obnoxious.

At a game against Cleveland earlier this season- I ahppened to be sitting in front of a group of college students from Cleveland- now they were a bit obnoxious... but I thought to myself, "Now if I were still in college, in Cleveland, and the O's were there- I'd probably to the same thing." They were obnoxious, but not really disrespectful, just loud really.... One thing about that Cleveland series- I actually went to 2 games- and one thing did really piss me off.

The first game we went to- we had GREAT seats. 3 rows back from the Orioles on deck circle. About the 4th inning, the 2 seats in the front row that had been unoccupiedm were suddenly filled with 2 Cleveland jersey wearing fans. I was like, "You gotta be kidding me." Anyway- they were respectful, not loud or obnoxious- but what really pissed me off, is that someone asked them where they got their tickets- and the guy was more than happy to tell us that they had been given the OWNER'S seats!

Yup, you heard me. He and his girlfriend had been sitting in some regular seats, up I guess near the Owner's box, and someone approached them and offered them the 2 front row seats! I don't know if there may have been more to the story than he told- but the fact is- they were given FRONT ROW SEATSD THAT BELONDED TO THE OWNER- and they were wearing the OPPOSING TEAM'S uniforms. That really pissed me off- but as I said, at least the fans were cool and respectful.

BUt again, my main point is that- not all fans are alike. I'm sure there are Orioles fans who are extremely obnoxious and disrespectful at opposing parks- and we wouldn't want to ALL be labeled in a negative manner because of the their actions. You'll always have your good and bad fans- but just because there are some jackals, doesn't mean ALL fans wearing red and black are bad.

[gallden]

Shocking!! Another thread on the Red Sox invading the Yard.

[IHeartMASN]

I was in town for an early season game against the Red Sox last season and was having lunch at the ESPN Zone when a group of Red Sox fans wanted to take a picture with me. They said they had been looking around all day for an Orioles fan and I was the first one they saw.

They were nice enough, but my experiences with Bruins fans (when the team is good) is that they are obnoxious beyond belief. It's not that they are worse/better than the Philly/NY folks, they are their own breed of obnoxius.

Stop selling the infield seats to Sox and Yankees fans. Just stop it.

[blueberryale77]

Interesting ideas, both of you. There's too much there to quote so I'll just respond. Lowering ticket prices to benefit families is an interesting idea but I think it needs to be done in a targeted way. If you lower all ticket prices, you just attract more Yankee/Red Sox fans and drunk college kids who make the atmosphere less family-friendly. They have done some in the way of family packages but they could certainly do more.

Secondly, your mention of parking brings up another important point: the Light Rail. When I was a teenager, Orioles games were the major attraction that got suburban kids to even think about using public transit. Now, most of the people I know who take the Light Rail to games have major complaints about how slow it is in rush hour traffic because MTA still refuses to use the signal pre-emption technology that was in their budget and the fact that MTA doesn't run extra trains for games so people wait a long time to get on a packed train. MTA needs to get their act together and the Orioles should start partnering with them to A) demand higher quality service to games and B) establish ticket packages that include a light rail ticket or at least give discounts to people buying day of game tickets if they show a light rail ticket. At the very least the Orioles could do more advertising the light rail option in conjunction with service improvements at game times. The Mets do it, I'm sure plenty of other teams do. Downtown stadiums don't work if they aren't well served by public transit (not that Shea is downtown, but it is served by both subway and commuter rail and they promote the heck out of it).

It's not just the team that's screwing up and making people stay away from Camden Yards... the city, the MTA, the stadium authority. Some people are still boycotting because of the labor situation with the people who clean the stadium. Some may be less inclined to go because the sound and video systems are horribly outdated and they get much better quality on their home tv or radio. All these situations would probably be financially beneficial in the long run if they were fixed.

The idea of promoting the players more is also a good one. The Orioles seem to make almost as many inexplicable decisions in that area as in baseball operations. How do you not have a single promotion this year involving Brian Roberts?! He and Markakis are the only ones who seem to resonate with the fans. More player spots on networks other than MASN would be good. More niche promotions could help too. The Orioles have Latino night but other teams have special nights for a bunch of different countries/cultures with dancers entertaining before the game and stuff. There's a lot of stuff it just seems like the Orioles just don't bother to do.

Improving the quality of MASN in many ways and making sure all Orioles games are available on all Baltimore cable carriers would be important. If people know who the players are, being able to watch them consistently is important to keep them interested. My sister works in a bar that doesn't get MASN2 and more often than not she has to show Gnats games in her bar in Towson because the Orioles aren't on in their own town. THAT is inexcusable.

Anyway, I could go on and on, but the fact is that the product on the field is far from the only thing keeping fans away from games. Angelos hatred may be #1 but that's kind of beyond almost anybody's control.

By the way, just to make people feel a little better, I just talked to a friend of mine (Yankee fan) who is on vacation in California and went to an Angels game against the Red Sox a few days ago. She said the crowd there was at least 50% Red Sox fans. And that's against a good team on the opposite side of the country!

[HVC]

Interesting ideas, both of you. There's too much there to quote so I'll just respond. Lowering ticket prices to benefit families is an interesting idea but I think it needs to be done in a targeted way. If you lower all ticket prices, you just attract more Yankee/Red Sox fans and drunk college kids who make the atmosphere less family-friendly. They have done some in the way of family packages but they could certainly do more.

Honestly, with the dugout club I feel like that is the best promotion in sports for families. $15 gets your kid some goodies and a 10-game mini-season ticket plan. Parents/friends get in for $6. Those are prices that the minor leagues can't even beat. Other than that, every Tuesday all tickets are $8 in the upper reserve. I'm not sure how much more people expect ticket prices to be lowered.

Once you get to a certain point, it becomes difficult to raise the prices to even average levels then once the team is good and demand starts to catch up with or outpace supply again. Then you look like you are greedy and capitalizing on your first good team in "x" years. Kind of a no-win situation.

[esmd]

Why is everyone straying off-topic?

We are NOT talking about whether or not the team has been bad.

We are NOT talking about whether or not the front office has made good decisions.

We are NOT talking about the owner's feelings about the team, the fans, or opposing fans.

We ARE, however, talking about other teams' fans invading our ballpark.

Any Orioles fan that can look at what we saw and heard today with anything other then pure humiliation is an embarrassment to the team as much as anything the team has done.

That doesn't make what the team has been any less bad. It makes what the fans are becoming that much less.

Do you believe that other teams' fans taking over Oriole Park is acceptable?

You don't seriously think that the fans disinterest doesn't have anything and everything to do with the points you highlighted at the beginning of your post??

If you don't think they're directly related, I mean....wow. Just....wow.

[Moose Milligan]

You don't seriously think that the fans disinterest doesn't have anything and everything to do with the points you highlighted at the beginning of your post??

If you don't think they're directly related, I mean....wow. Just....wow.

Great point.

How are you gonna get the fringe fans out to the park? The diehards are there.

[Rex Thunder]

I was in town for an early season game against the Red Sox last season and was having lunch at the ESPN Zone when a group of Red Sox fans wanted to take a picture with me. They said they had been looking around all day for an Orioles fan and I was the first one they saw.

They were nice enough, but my experiences with Bruins fans (when the team is good) is that they are obnoxious beyond belief. It's not that they are worse/better than the Philly/NY folks, they are their own breed of obnoxius.

Stop selling the infield seats to Sox and Yankees fans. Just stop it.

That's exactly what aggravates me the most. Every seat within camera view behind homeplate and each dugout should be sold to Orioles fans- and if they are not belonging to season ticket holders- give them to the most loyal of orioles season ticket buyers for the Yankee and Red Sox games- just to keep orange and black in those seats that everyone sees when they turn the television on. Not to mention the immediate surroundings of our players. let's at least make the sux and yanks fans sit in the upper deck. I feel like they all want to splurge and buy up the BEST seats possible just to make even more of a statement.

Of course- it's always nice to get good seats when visiting a new ballpark- but that doesn't change the fact that we need to somehow keep it form happening so frequently!

[BaltimoreTerp]

You don't seriously think that the fans disinterest doesn't have anything and everything to do with the points you highlighted at the beginning of your post??

If you don't think they're directly related, I mean....wow. Just....wow.

This isn't a general, "Why Aren't Fans Coming to the Ballpark," thread.

This is a, "The Red Sox and Yankees are Disrespecting Us as Fans," thread.

Do you believe that it is OK for them to be taking over our ballpark? Remember, any arguments about giving the team money are invalid because the games are selling out anyway, and any arguments about "the front office doesn't care about us" are invalid because we are being disrespected even more directly by the Red Sox and Yankees fans.

[BaltimoreTerp]

That's exactly what aggravates me the most. Every seat within camera view behind homeplate and each dugout should be sold to Orioles fans- and if they are not belonging to season ticket holders- give them to the most loyal of orioles season ticket buyers for the Yankee and Red Sox games- just to keep orange and black in those seats that everyone sees when they turn the television on. Not to mention the immediate surroundings of our players. let's at least make the sux and yanks fans sit in the upper deck. I feel like they all want to splurge and buy up the BEST seats possible just to make even more of a statement.

Of course- it's always nice to get good seats when visiting a new ballpark- but that doesn't change the fact that we need to somehow keep it form happening so frequently!

Ok, how do you prove that people who buy those seats are Orioles fans at purchase?

How do you prevent people from selling those seats second-hand?

[BaltimoreTerp]

Your thinking about this like a 5 year old would, attacking the immediate problem rather than what caused the problem in the first place.

Decade of mismanagement-------> lack of fan interest ------> other fans taking over the ballpark. The end product is a result of the source. Everyone thinks this is atrocious, however some of us believe in stopping the entire cycle rather than throwing a band aid on the present.

So, you want to go after the cause of the problem while the cut bleeds to death.

Why does it have to be one or the other; why not have the pride in our team to both demand and fight for change while not allowing other teams' fans to take over our ballpark?