How Does Terry Crowley Continue To Fly Under the Radar?

[MikeAD]

Nobody on here has enough information to know whether Crowley should keep his job or not.

This is just another instances of people maiking judgements based on absolutely no evidence or real knowledge of the subject at hand.

Half of the arguments have turned into some form of "I know you are but what am I."

[Pedro Cerrano]

He helped Adam Jones when he listened to him, before he got homer happy, Nick, Huff, Pie. He's good at helping guys maintain their swing mechanics. Atkins seems to be doing OK, and he has good things to say about Crowley. He develops good working rapor with players. But you didn't answer my question. What do you think a new caoch should do differently?

Coach an offense that can score runs!

[The Rick]

Coach an offense that can score runs!

Coach an offense that can perform better with situational hitting.

[MikeAD]

Coach an offense that can perform better with situational hitting.

Are you saying that these players don't know how to perform in situational hitting?

Isn't the manager calling the bunts, hit and runs, steals, sac flies?

I'm not saying Crow should be fired or stay on, but there isn't an argument to be made with the facts that we have.

[El Gordo]

Well, I get your point. But I don't think it's just about "making adjustments." That term alludes more to individual mechanics than an overall team batting strategy. ("Raise your elbow, Bob," that kind of stuff.)

I know little about batting mechanics. But that's not my concern. My concern is that we don't appear to be working an effective TEAM batting strategy... Bottom line... We need to knock the opposing starter out of the game as early as possible - priority #1. Tire him out. Frustrate him. Drive up his pitch count. Get in his head. Only swing at YOUR pitches, not his.

These would be my specific suggestions (not sure if this meets your standard but here goes)...

1. Our hitters need to take more balls...

2. Our hitters need to foul off more pitches and protect the plate better with two strikes... If you're going to have a helicopter swinging strike on a 57-foot curveball, please don't make it with a runner on third, two outs and the game tied 1-1 in the bottom of the ninth. (That's a hypothetical example, of course.)

3. Our hitters need to step out of the batter's box more... Take time outs... Do little things to upset the timing of the opposing starter...

I've seen opposing lineups do it to our pitchers for years on end... while we continue with a series of oddly disconnected-feeling at-bats.

I don't sense that we're going out there with a "game plan" and full intel on every opposing pitcher... I could be 100% wrong, of course. But I think the OP had a point: The team's batting warrants a good grilling about now... And truth be told, I think he should be fired, even though the OP said nothing about firing Crowley.

Nice try, but not every hitter has the pitch recognition to just "take more balls", not every hitter has the contact skill to spoil pitches, etc. Working the count doesn't work when you have a pitcher who throws strikes, especially first pitch strikes. You just end up hitting 0-2. Not every hitter is a good 2 strike hitter. Having a team approach is a little unrealistic, if the team all has different skill levels. You'll never turn Miggi into a Nick type of hitter and Nick would be a disaster trying to hit like Miggi. It's not a one size fits all thing.

[fansince71]

Sooner or later you need to clean house. AM had a chance to do it last year and didn't . Mistake IMO. DT is a great guy , so was Jim Zorn.

[The Rick]

Are you saying that these players don't know how to perform in situational hitting?

Isn't the manager calling the bunts, hit and runs, steals, sac flies?

I'm not saying Crow should be fired or stay on, but there isn't an argument to be made with the facts that we have.

They consistently perform poorly in getting runners in from 3rd with less than 2 outs. This is something DT was intent on addressing in Spring Training. This is something that has been absolutely horrendous so far this season. Sure, we don't know for a fact, but I would put money on those things being Crowley's responsibility. Not knowing for a fact doesn't mean we can't discuss.

And there have been several teams with a worse offense than the O's over the past decade who have put up better results because of good fundamental baseball. This has been something that all of Crowley's offenses have struggled with, as far back as I can remember.

BTW, I said in my first post in this thread that I didn't know if I would be for him leaving or not too. So again, this is just discussion, and yes, to a large degree, speculation. I really admire Crow's work with projects. From what I know about that aspect of his job, he'd make a great "Project Manager" if there ever were such a title in baseball.

[El Gordo]

Coach an offense that can perform better with situational hitting.

This is something. I was listen to Kennedy on XMMLB today referring to a hitting coach who stressed situational hitting skills. Had drills. Of course this was Mil related but I wonder if Crow works on these things. This team could sure use a couple of Nellie Fox type hitters. And don't bother to look up his stats, they don't tell you what he was good at.:laughlol:

[section18]

Eddie Murray was fired a few years ago as Cleveland's hitting coach and soon afterwards they started hitting and scoring runs. Just a coincidence I guess. Again, I said I would like to see the Crow take some live questions on TV to put us at ease. I'm sure he will tell us exactly what we want to hear and we' ll leave him alone.

I'm going again tomorrow night and expect to see some runs on the board and a win for Matusz. Nick has hit a number of homers when I have been there and I expect to see #1 tomorrow night and who knows.....maybe he can hit two. The key is he has to swing the bat and forget about the walks for awhile. We are a station to station team it seems right now and we need three hits to score a run. Start going for the fences Nick. See what happens. You are down to .167 and still no RBI'S or HR'S after 7 games. Small sampling but not good. I hate to say this but he does not appear to be adapting very well to married life. He needs to focus and stop thinking about other things. Maybe the road trip will help him. There is something going on with him. He was interviewed after the game and acted like everything is fine and they'll start hitting soon. Yes Nick everything is fine. He is one of my favorite Orioles and right now he is slipping with me and a lot of other fans.

Is there a problem with him and Adam Jones our All-Star and Gold Glove CF? Is there anybody on OH who thought AJ would win a Gold Glove before Nick? Did anybody think AJ would make the All-Star team before Nick? Is there some jealousy going on here? If there is I would think Nick would try to show everybody who the star is on this team. He doesn't seem to have responded very well to all of the Matt Wieters hype either. Last .....has he had his eyes checked lately? How do you stand at the plate and watch strike three go by twice in the same game without swinging the bat? He may need contacts. He misjudged a fly ball over the weekend against Toronto according to Joe and Fred and one of his throws to the plate was up the third base line by 15 feet. Has the Crow made a guess hitter out of him and he is totally confused at the plate?

[PitchingWins]

He helped Adam Jones when he listened to him, before he got homer happy, Nick, Huff, Pie. He's good at helping guys maintain their swing mechanics. Atkins seems to be doing OK, and he has good things to say about Crowley. He develops good working rapor with players. But you didn't answer my question. What do you think a new caoch should do differently?

I don't know maybe help a team hit? Maybe he could help Adam Jones recognize a slider? I will give you it is just as much him as it isn't. I am not saying he needs to be fired, but the team needs to hit. After all.... That is his job. The main job of a hitting coach is to help recognize pitches effectively. Mechanics and minor adjustments are made when hitters become off kilter. Pitch recognition is where the bread and butter of a hitting coach is at. I can't tell you how effective he really is at this. I am not there to judge his tutorials, but the numbers suggest failure. Again I am not saying he should be fired. I don't know if there is a better hitting coach out there. That is not my profession. I don't think you can cast stones saying well what has he done or how can he improve it. Because you don't really know. As mentioned before, he is the constant in this variable. Maybe you could come down off you high horse and see the field from that point of view?

[SrMeowMeow]

They consistently perform poorly in getting runners in from 3rd with less than 2 outs. This is something DT was intent on addressing in Spring Training. This is something that has been absolutely horrendous so far this season. Sure, we don't know for a fact, but I would put money on those things being Crowley's responsibility. Not knowing for a fact doesn't mean we can't discuss.

And there have been several teams with a worse offense than the O's over the past decade who have put up better results because of good fundamental baseball. This has been something that all of Crowley's offenses have struggled with, as far back as I can remember.

BTW, I said in my first post in this thread that I didn't know if I would be for him leaving or not too. So again, this is just discussion, and yes, to a large degree, speculation. I really admire Crow's work with projects. From what I know about that aspect of his job, he'd make a great "Project Manager" if there ever were such a title in baseball.

This is so silly...you think Crowley is telling the hitters to strike out with a runner on third and less than two outs?

[PitchingWins]

This is so silly...you think Crowley is telling the hitters to strike out with a runner on third and less than two outs?

You don't think it is Crowleys job to help them figure out how? Terry Crowley is lucky he is in baseball!

[SrMeowMeow]

You don't think it is Crowleys job to help them figure out how? Terry Crowley is lucky he is in baseball!

Crowley can fix their mechanics. He can help them prepare for different pitchers. He can even drill them in strategy - hit the ball to the right side; hit a sacrifice fly; just make any kind of contact. But what he can't do is stop a player from striking out in a specific at-bat. He can't do it. No hitting coach can.

Am I saying that hitting coaches can't ever be held accountable? No. But they can only be held accountable, like managers and GMs and everyone in the world, based on the process, not based on results. And, unlike managers and GMs, what a hitting coach does is almost completely opaque to fans. We don't know how he coaches. We don't know what advice he's giving to the hitters. It could be bad advice. Our struggles with RISP could be entirely his fault. But we don't know, and because we don't know, blaming Crowley is ignorant.

[crissfan172]

Crowley helps hitters reach their potential. The only bad thing about him is that he doesn't emphasize patience and taking pitches enough, which really shouldn't have to be taught to begin with.

[PitchingWins]

Crowley can fix their mechanics. He can help them prepare for different pitchers. He can even drill them in strategy - hit the ball to the right side; hit a sacrifice fly; just make any kind of contact. But what he can't do is stop a player from striking out in a specific at-bat. He can't do it. No hitting coach can.

Am I saying that hitting coaches can't ever be held accountable? No. But they can only be held accountable, like managers and GMs and everyone in the world, based on the process, not based on results. And, unlike managers and GMs, what a hitting coach does is almost completely opaque to fans. We don't know how he coaches. We don't know what advice he's giving to the hitters. It could be bad advice. Our struggles with RISP could be entirely his fault. But we don't know, and because we don't know, blaming Crowley is ignorant.

And to exonerate him is being obtuse. See how the knife cuts both ways? That is all I am saying. The team pays him to teach the players how to hit. If you pay a teacher, to teach a kid how to read, and they can't. Whos fault is it?