Good God, the Whining Is Intolerable

[rp0806]

one of them

What about Buck O'Neill for the other spot? He'd give you the ultimate bang for your buck veteran presence.

[inmiggywetrust]

I know most of you wanted something to happen, but it didn't, and that's because the front office was dealing with all the possible scenarios regarding Miggy. Do we have to be a bunch of toddlers with Teletubbies-length attention spans about it? The team is moving in the right direction, albeit slowly. Next spring, here are the people who could be fighting for spots in the rotation: Bedard, Benson, Cabrera, Chen, Liz, Loewen, Lopez, Penn. If they don't start, they strenghten the pen. Hoey could own a spot in the bullpen. Reimold, a disappointment with his +.800 OPS, could be a contender for a bench slot.

Meanwhile, our staring lineup will include Roberts, Mora, Tejada, Patterson, Hernandez, Gibbons, Markakis. Throw in a couple of guys who can hit .250, and we look at least as good as the '83 Birds. Lenn Sakata, anyone?

It all comes down to the pitching. If four or five of those eight can pitch well, then we're in the hunt. That's a far cry from this year, when we needed every one of our starters to perform at max ability to see .500.

I do think we could use a big bat, but I don't think it's vital. The pieces are in place for us to do what the Tigers are doing this year. A big bat would help, but I don't really think it's vital. Am I missing something here?

All the moaning about the front office ignores the fact that the front office has stockpiled a huge amount of pitching talent and has added a bunch of hitting possibles to the organization. I think some people here would rather complain than admit that the FO is finally geting it right.

Yes, Angelos is a terrible owner, but I think the front office has figured things out.

The Tigers are NOT comparable to us!! HAHA, they signed TWO BIG BATS (Maggs and Pudge). I'm sorry, but we do NEED a big bat or two. Two guys that can hit .250? Millar and Conine? Is this offense enough? Nope. Need a big bat. And the Tigers comparision is not accurate.

[Dr. FLK]

Why is it that everyone here finds these players useless and detestable and yet can't understand why other clubs don't just scarf them up? We don't want them but the FO is dysfunctional because they can't get anyone to take them.

Did you miss my earlier post where I pointed out that teams got talent for guys like Lohse, Roberto Hernandez, Oliver Perez, etc...? We could have gotten something for them. Other teams got something for their trash.

[MiamiD]

It's great to see such a positive and realistic analysis of the team and it's direction on this board. This is much more pleasant to read than the constant bashing, negative hyperbole, and deriding that is so prevalent here. While somewhat understandable, much of it is exaggerated, inaccurate and unjusitifed. It is much more fun to view the team as you have than to deride the progress that has been made and is continuing to be made; and it's a much more realistic picuture of the team and it's future prospects for success.

It's all about pitching, and that pitching will arrive from within the organization sooner rather than later.

Things are much better than they were even two years ago, and I'm looking forward to following this team, and enjoying the growth and development of players such as Markakis, Lowenn, Fahey, Ray, Britton, perhaps Patterson and others.

The glass is clearly half full, not half empty, and that is the way things should be viewed. Besides, it's more fun to view things in such a manner.

[El Gordo]

Gordo, Witchy Chick raised the same arguements many others have. Whiiiiiine or not, you couldn't refute them, particularly this...

We will get another Conine-Millar $2 million/year "veteran presence" type guy in the FA market. And we will be doomed for another year of mediocrity. I'm resigned to it -- you should be too.

If this isn;t I don't know what is. How can I refute something so groundless. I'm not sure what the assumption here is but to say that because we signed Conine and Millar last year we will only sign older players for the forseeable future is not reason, it's whining and doesn't require a response . I keep hearing a lot of complaining about these two guys but when I ask about better options for them last year I never hear specific ideas just alot of SG type generalities like "any body would be better than them". If I recall we could have signed Preston Wilson, Juan Pierre, Encarnacion, Durazo, Mike Sweeney, Travis Lee, and Juaque Jones. Jones and Encarnacion are doing pretty well but they would have required more money and a longer committment. At the time Markakis was considered at least a half a season away and they didn't want to block him. I wanted Encarnacion but I really can't fault the thinking on Conine and Millar. I also wanted to move Bedard for a big bat, like Dunn; I'm glad they knew better than me on that one. I think a bigger mistake was letting go of Marrero but like Bynes he hadn't produced much for us and was injured most of the latter part of the season. Also it is held to be an axiom here that because Angelos has been unwilling to spend in the past, re: Delgado, Burnett/Lowell?,Vlad($90 mil. instead of $78) Konerko(if we had only offered $70mil. instead of $65 he would have taken it)et al., he will never spend in the future. Well by this reasoning it is also axiomatic that Agelos is bound to spend in the future because he has in the past, re: Palmeiro, Alomar, Bell, Tejada, J. Lopez, Palmeiro again and Sosa. I think the truth is he will spend when he thinks it's worth it but unfortunately in some cases what he thinks is worthwhile spending is not, and vica versa..

[El Gordo]

Did you miss my earlier post where I pointed out that teams got talent for guys like Lohse, Roberto Hernandez, Oliver Perez, etc...? We could have gotten something for them. Other teams got something for their trash.

Hernandez's numbers are a lot better than Hawkins, .293 ERA. The Mets needed a reliever to replace Shanchez one of their best; they had to take Perez to get him IMO and his numbers are on par with RLo's.

[CrimsonTribe]

Could it be? yes, it is, it sounds like a Whiiiiiine.

Dude, you are getting intolerable.

[El Gordo]

Gordo, the problem with the Conines and Millars isn't that they are having bad years and nobody wants them any more. The problem is this: everybody here with as much as an ounce of foresight knew that they would be useless when they were signed and didn't want them in the first place.But most of the people we sign are like that. I mean, look it up if you don't believe me.

The front office is moving slowly forward you say? You're right about that anyway. Verrrrry slowly. I mean, they signed a fair offensive player in Hernandez (and the rose-colored eyeglass set on this board acts like it's Pujols). We trade for an averagepitcher and a centerfielder who projects to 15 HR and 59 RBI. While both are immensely better than what they replaced, they aren't going to improve the team much. That's it, Gordo, the rest they picked up was junk.

If you consider that mediocre performance to be the shining heights of Orioles achievement, that's pretty sad.

One kid who's 21 posted that he mite not live to ever see them win big again. That says more than anything else about the front office you are trying to defend.

I never said anything about how fast or slowly the FO is moving, you've got me confused with somone else. And I'm not really defending the FO, I'm questioning the mindless, knee jerk, criticism of the FO the ends up sounding like whining to me.

[Sports Guy]

I never said anything about how fast or slowly the FO is moving you've got meconfused with somone else. And I'm not really defending the FO, I'm questioning the mindless, knee jerk, criticism of the FO the ends up sounding like whining to me.

Well perhaps you should use your brain and try to figure out what people are saying.

It has already been shown to you that similar players were dealt for decent players. We didn't do it. You ask for examples of who we could get...I told you Baker...Still went over your head.

Perhaps if you did some research, listened to people and actually read what was going on, you would understand. Until then, you will just continue to b!tch and moan about what you perceive to be whining from people when they are really talking about legit things.

Of course, i don't expect you to actually listen to me....You seem to be the type to just cry about things.

[Dr. FLK]

Hernandez's numbers are a lot better than Hawkins, .293 ERA. The Mets needed a reliever to replace Shanchez one of their best; they had to take Perez to get him IMO and his numbers are on par with RLo's.

Kyle Lohse is one of the only starters in the league with an era worse than Rodrigo. And, the Twins got a nice pitching prospect for hmi. Hernandez has better numbers than Latroy, but he's also old. And, mediocre to poor RPs (like Rheal Cormier) are dealt every year at the deadline for at least mediocre prospects. The point is, there would have been takers for these players had we tried. But, the FO admittedly was too wrapped up in the Miggy deals to work on other deals. I'm not sure why this is still being debated, since it's pretty obvious that mediocre (and poor) players can be dealt at the deadline.

[Mark Carver]

450 PAs = $2 mil option, if I recall correctly.

$2m 2007 option vests with 450 Plate Appearances in 2006 (Conine retains right to void the option if it vests)

Hasn't he made rumblings of retiring lately...

[El Gordo]

Well perhaps you should use your brain and try to figure out what people are saying.

It has already been shown to you that similar players were dealt for decent players. We didn't do it. You ask for examples of who we could get...I told you Baker...Still went over your head.

Perhaps if you did some research, listened to people and actually read what was going on, you would understand. Until then, you will just continue to b!tch and moan about what you perceive to be whining from people when they are really talking about legit things.

Of course, i don't expect you to actually listen to me....You seem to be the type to just cry about things.

SG I think your skin is getting a little thin. Simple question; where did you read that the Rockies offered Baker for Hawkins. I heard it discussed here as a possible trade option but unless the offer was made and we turned it down you can't say we could have had Baker for Hawkins, just that it 's a good trade possibilty. Maybe there was a post by BB on this that I missed or somthing published that I didn't read?

[Sports Guy]

SG I think your skin is getting a little thin. Simple question; where did you read that the Rockies offered Baker for Hawkins. I heard it discussed here as a possible trade option but unless the offer was made and we turned it down you can't say we could have had Baker for Hawkins, just that it 's a good trade possibilty. Maybe there was a post by BB on this that I missed or somthing published that I didn't read?

It was made and we did turn it down...Again, it has been shown on here and talked about alot...There is even a current thread about Hawkins/Baker(may not be on the first page though).

It was in Sun. Said the Rockies wanted to trade us Baker but we weren't as interested.

[Mark Carver]

It was made and we did turn it down...Again, it has been shown on here and talked about alot...There is even a current thread about Hawkins/Baker(may not be on the first page though).

It was in Sun. Said the Rockies wanted to trade us Baker but we weren't as interested.

Well I did a search for Baker Hawkins Sun which netted 3 pages of threads. I found a thread called Baker?, but in that one there is only user speculation.

http://38.114.169.120/forums/showthread.php?t=35964&highlight=Hawkins+Baker

Sometimes these things take a life of their own. I have emailed Roch Kubatko and Peter Smuck... maybe they will respond.

[El Gordo]

Well I did a search for Baker Hawkins Sun which netted 3 pages of threads. I found a thread called Baker?, but in that one there is only user speculation.

http://38.114.169.120/forums/showthread.php?t=35964&highlight=Hawkins+Baker

Sometimes these things take a life of their own. I have emailed Roch Kubatko and Peter Smuck... maybe they will respond.

I checked that thread out too, couldn't find any evidence of an actual offer. I'm glad someone else sees my point. Things that start out as speculation here seem to become fact over time and it's hard to keep things straight.