Jump to content

Good God, the Whining Is Intolerable


peter snees

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 107
  • Created
  • Last Reply
I understand what you are saying, but do we really need thread after thread on how bad the Orioles are, on how bad the owner is, and so on..

Groups of people probably shouldn't be blamed for what individuals are doing. Regardless of the opinion expressed, it's excessive when people start a thread titled "My position" or whatever. I'll agree with that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whining? Please tell me how to constructively criticize the front office / ownership? Or are you going to insist that fighting it out with the hapless Devil Rays for 4th place is something to be content with?

It's not whining to say that:

#1) this is a 4th/5th place team

#2) There are some players who have no future and could have been traded for players who MIGHT help.

#3) The farm system is better, but not one that can be relied upon to bring enough talent to the majors fast enough to blend with the quality vets in their prime that are here. Look how long it's taking for Bedard. We have to be that patient with all propspects. Guys like Markakis and Penn probably won't be impact players until 2008. Then Tejada and Mora are on the decline. It's called zero sum gain. AKA treading water.

This isn't whining...it's realism.

It is when every other post says the same thing. How do you know we could have traded any one this year. Can you tell me what the offers were for RLo ,Javy Conine and Hawkins? Or does it not matter to you; we should just give thes guys away because they aren't having good years and you don't like them any more.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My feeling about where we are has little to do with what we didn't do today. I don't know whether we had a deal worth doing or not. But the last six months are just further confirmation of the confused / fortress mentality management model we are now in.

Alas, this is the key to so much frustration about some of the statements posted on this message board in the last week.

Most fans would have liked to see some moves be made, that is not what this "sick of the irrational whiny threads" post is about.

It is about so many acting like they knew excactly what proposals the FO was receiving....and they knew further more that the front office had already blown it, before they even got the phone from thier heads.

So much rumor flying around and a certian network so eager with thier jaded views of the O's (much like many OH fans) repreating every year at trading season and offseason that the Orioles FO is not capable of dealing with the rest of MLB.

Granted at one time I agreed with them, the days Syd Thrift and of a new GM every season put us in this shape to begin with. But that was then and this is now, as a regular Oriole fan I can see the difference and see that there has been improvment....(unfortunately, derailed by injries and the Raffy drama last year) and perhaps over expectation for and underpreformance of the starting staff this season.

The rest of this season should not even be about getting to .500, it should be about getting the young pitching some experience and in the offseason getting a legit LF and 1B and of course if anything is to be had, more pitching.

That may seem like an optimistic veiw to most on this board ..... it is, I freely admit that, but sometimes reading this board is more depressing than informational......kinda of like reading the evening news. Sad and sadder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If they had gotten it right, Conine, Rodrigo, & Co. would be gone. They are not part of our future, and teams got solid talent for lesser players than them. People complain because this franchise has become the laughing stock of baseball. And, if you don't believe that, read an article in the Sports section of papers from Houston to LA. It's not only that no deals were comitted, it's how they seemed to fall through. Yet another GM (Houston) said he will not deal with us because of how negotians were handled. I'm not complaining because Miggy was not dealt. But, the fact that the FO admittedly was so focused on this "deal" that they couldn't get anything else done is a joke. 2 GMs can multi-task? It just seems to be another example of imcompetance. Unfortunately, you have bought into the tried and true "we're almost there with what we have" message that has led us to 9 losing seasons. Who knows, maybe this crew will develop into Ainsworth, Maine, and Damian Moss. Those 3 along with Bedard, and playoffs here we come. There are no sure things, and any time you can add more depth to your minor leagues, you have to do it. And we just watched this chance go by with a thumbs up our...

Why is it that everyone here finds these players useless and detestable and yet can't understand why other clubs don't just scarf them up? We don't want them but the FO is dysfunctional because they can't get anyone to take them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why is it that evryone here finds these players useless and detestable and yet can't understand why other clubs don't just scarf them up? We don't want them but the FO is dysfuntional because they can't get anyone to take them.

We KNOW there were teams interested in these guys. These players are good for contenders, as role players...Not guys that should be starting for a team that SHOULD be rebuilding.

Why can't people get this point? Why does it always turn into the above discussion.

This is a simple concept.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

See now that's my point. There's no need for the unnescessary allusions to your "six year old". That's getting personal. People get frustrated and they vent. They have had their expectations raised by the press, the team, the ownership, and eachother. They've been disappointed. Haven't you? They come on this site and try to commiserate with like minded fans.

I suggest that you not read their threads if you find them so offensive. I know there are lots of threads and lots of posters whose threads I won't read. But there is no need to get into name caling and character killing.

I did not mean that you guys are acting like 6 year olds.. My comparison was to the overall whining, not to any particular poster. If you took it that way, then I apologize...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We KNOW there were teams interested in these guys. These players are good for contenders, as role players...Not guys that should be starting for a team that SHOULD be rebuilding.

Why can't people get this point? Why does it always turn into the above discussion.

This is a simple concept.

It's a shame though that the league got Tejada-obsessed and forgot about the potential role players like Javy, Conine, and co.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We KNOW there were teams interested in these guys. These players are good for contenders, as role players...Not guys that should be starting for a team that SHOULD be rebuilding.

Why can't people get this point? Why does it always turn into the above discussion.

This is a simple concept.

Not so simple as your mind. Yes, interest was at one time expressed for example in RLo by the Mets's; they in fact were in the process of making a deal for him for Endy Chavez but unfortunatly Sanchez was injured in an auto accident and they had to trade for a reliever. Except for Angelos being Satan and willing these things to occur how is that the FO's mistake. The Mariners and Yankees had an interest in Conine at one time but the Yankees traded for Wilson, can you blame them and Seattle traded for Broussard and so would have I. How did the FO screw up here? Colorado had an interest in Hawkins but for reasons I cant understand went for Affeldt instead. If we wanted Shealy maybe we should have offered Penn or Loewen. How would that have enhanced your opinion of the FO?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not so simple as your mind. Yes, interest was at one time expressed for example in RLo by the Mets's; they in fact were in the process of making a deal for him for Endy Chavez but unfortunatly Sanchez was injured in an auto accident and they had to trade for a reliever. Except for Angelos being Satan and willing these things to occur how is that the FO's mistake. The Mariners and Yankees had an interest in Conine at one time but the Yankees traded for Wilson, can you blame them and Seattle traded for Broussard and so would have I. How did the FO screw up here? Colorado had an interest in Hawkins but for reasons I cant understand went for Affeldt instead. If we wanted Shealy maybe we should have offered Penn or Loewen. How would that have enhanced your opinion of the FO?

What does trading for a reliever have to do with them adding a starter? The answer...NOTHING.

We could have gotten Jeff Baker for Hawkins.

We could have gotten Wilson and let him go after the year and get draft picks.

Kyle Lohse, a guy who has been worse than Chen and Rlo this year, was traded for a good pitching prospect.

Delas were there to be made...We didn;t do them.

There plan was to wait as long as they could and have the teams get desperate...They then turned their attention to Miggy and showed, yet again, that they can't multi-task.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does trading for a reliever have to do with them adding a starter? The answer...NOTHING.

We could have gotten Jeff Baker for Hawkins.

We could have gotten Wilson and let him go after the year and get draft picks.

Kyle Lohse, a guy who has been worse than Chen and Rlo this year, was traded for a good pitching prospect.

Delas were there to be made...We didn;t do them.

There plan was to wait as long as they could and have the teams get desperate...They then turned their attention to Miggy and showed, yet again, that they can't multi-task.

That last statement is an interesting thought. You would think that 1 guy handled Tejada while the other one handled everything else. Am I missing something here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does trading for a reliever have to do with them adding a starter? The answer...NOTHING.

We could have gotten Jeff Baker for Hawkins.

We could have gotten Wilson and let him go after the year and get draft picks.

Kyle Lohse, a guy who has been worse than Chen and Rlo this year, was traded for a good pitching prospect.

Delas were there to be made...We didn;t do them.

There plan was to wait as long as they could and have the teams get desperate...They then turned their attention to Miggy and showed, yet again, that they can't multi-task.

Please cite your sources for these deals that we coulda shoulda made. When did we turn down Baker for Hawkins and who did we not want to trade to get Wilson a free agent that we might very well get this winter? The Mets took OPerez in the deal for Hernandez and therefore didn't have a need for Lopez. They had to act fast to replace Sanchez before the deadline. Were it not for the accident we probably would have moved Lopez for Chavez.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gordo, the problem with the Conines and Millars isn't that they are having bad years and nobody wants them any more. The problem is this: everybody here with as much as an ounce of foresight knew that they would be useless when they were signed and didn't want them in the first place.But most of the people we sign are like that. I mean, look it up if you don't believe me.

The front office is moving slowly forward you say? You're right about that anyway. Verrrrry slowly. I mean, they signed a fair offensive player in Hernandez (and the rose-colored eyeglass set on this board acts like it's Pujols). We trade for an averagepitcher and a centerfielder who projects to 15 HR and 59 RBI. While both are immensely better than what they replaced, they aren't going to improve the team much. That's it, Gordo, the rest they picked up was junk.

If you consider that mediocre performance to be the shining heights of Orioles achievement, that's pretty sad.

One kid who's 21 posted that he mite not live to ever see them win big again. That says more than anything else about the front office you are trying to defend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know most of you wanted something to happen, but it didn't, and that's because the front office was dealing with all the possible scenarios regarding Miggy. Do we have to be a bunch of toddlers with Teletubbies-length attention spans about it? The team is moving in the right direction, albeit slowly. Next spring, here are the people who could be fighting for spots in the rotation: Bedard, Benson, Cabrera, Chen, Liz, Loewen, Lopez, Penn. If they don't start, they strenghten the pen. Hoey could own a spot in the bullpen. Reimold, a disappointment with his +.800 OPS, could be a contender for a bench slot.

Meanwhile, our staring lineup will include Roberts, Mora, Tejada, Patterson, Hernandez, Gibbons, Markakis. Throw in a couple of guys who can hit .250, and we look at least as good as the '83 Birds. Lenn Sakata, anyone?

It all comes down to the pitching. If four or five of those eight can pitch well, then we're in the hunt. That's a far cry from this year, when we needed every one of our starters to perform at max ability to see .500.

I do think we could use a big bat, but I don't think it's vital. The pieces are in place for us to do what the Tigers are doing this year. A big bat would help, but I don't really think it's vital. Am I missing something here?

All the moaning about the front office ignores the fact that the front office has stockpiled a huge amount of pitching talent and has added a bunch of hitting possibles to the organization. I think some people here would rather complain than admit that the FO is finally geting it right.

Yes, Angelos is a terrible owner, but I think the front office has figured things out.

Whining. I prefer to call it criticism, debate, conjecture, scrutiny, circumspection.

And it will continue.

Know how it ends? Whent eh team wins consistently.

Thta has not happened in soon to be 9 years.

And I for one (though I know I am joined by hoardes of toher O's fans) do not see us winniogj consistently for some time yet UNLESS there are major changes.

All I can say is you will have to learn to deal with the criticism (what you will call 'whining'), just like those who criticize must learn to deal with the ones who live in a fantasy-like dream world where everything is blisssful and good with this team (which is itself annoying and intolerable). It is what it is.....for both views.

Two sides of the fence..get along.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


  • Posts

    • emmett16 is right. Uppercut swings produce a lot of groundouts because the bat is not on the same plane as the ball for very long. The best swing stays on the same plane as the ball for a longer time. This will produce contact that creates backspin on the ball which makes it carry. That Ted Williams book is one of the best hitting books ever written.
    • I have to admit. I'm an addict. I'm an addict not of booze or drugs. I'm an addict for baseball .... It's still THE game for me and I love almost any team sport. But for me, when it's great, it's still the greatest game of them all. I hate to say it, but when my team wins ...it's like a hit of crack or coke and I have never and will never try those drugs. This one is a better high anyway. It's an adrenaline rush for me. It comes from my heart and soul. Like the other night in Anaheim I sat transfixed on the game. I dont need to look at the silly shell games on a scoreboard, nor hear what the players favorite singer is.. or eat a lot of junk, but I DO have to have my bag of peanuts. The Orioles were clinging to a one run lead, when, with the bases loaded, Mike Trout stepped up to the plate...a single and the game is tied...an extra base hit and the Orioles lose. Our pitcher Craig Kimbrel had to throw a strike to one of the all time greats, and somehow, someway, Trout looked at a third strike and the Orioles won. I lept into the air as if I had a million dollars on the game. I never bet on sports, but this was a better high than winning any bet anyway. Because it is pure and it comes from my deep place of caring when the 'Birds' win. Today in Anaheim, another nail biter, the game was in the ninth with two out and a runner on first. Suddenly the runner broke for second and catcher James McCann threw a strike to second base. Gunnar Henderson covering, made the tag and the ump called the runner out. And the game ended that way. Bang Bang. Personally I thought it was a blown call, but after review the call was upheld and the Orioles won another nail biter. I dont watch many other games, but every night I hit the crack pipe" of baseball. It's my addiction. I also love watching fantastic performers. Mookie Betts is an electric ballplayer . can do anything at the plate and in the field. The Orioles' Henderson is a must see ballplayer like Betts is. On Wednesday he hit a home run, a double, a single, drove in 3 runs got hit by a pitch , stole a base and made two game saving plays in the field. Baseball is a team sport but it's also watching the brilliant, mesmerizing individual performances. It's watching the best players in the world do what I think is the most difficult thing in sports , hit a baseball, throw a baseball, and field a baseball. It's hard to do. Anyway,it's still just April and it's a long, long season. Bryant Gumble once had a great line about the difference between football and baseball. He said "Baseball, is a never ending romance, but football is a one night stand." Yep, I'm an addict, a baseball junkie, and I make no apologies for it. I'll never go to rehab for my baseball addiction. I don't NEED to be cured. And I never will be. Jim Bouton said it best in "Ball Four" his great book. "In all the years you grip a baseball...you suddenly remember, it's really the other way around" Exactly.
    • Especially when you factor in the DL Hall trade too.  Suarez and Wells get bumped to the pen only if Bradish and Means are effective starters a decent part of the season.  Would the O's promote Povich or McDermott to pitch relief?  My guess is not anytime soon, but I dunno. A trade would for one or two arms would be best, but trading for good relief pitching is only harder now because so many teams can make the playoffs.  
    • But O'Hearn's numbers are inflated because he never bats against lefties, plus he's trash in the outfield.  If Santander's hitting does not improve this season of course you don't give him a QO, but that's unlikely.  He'll probably pick it up as the weather heats up.  Plus Tony plays at least a decent RF and can play first base too.   Like others have said, should the O's offer Santander a QO?  Maybe -- it depends on how he performs and how Kjerstad and Stowers perform.  
    • Wait, since when is money no object? It remains to be seen what the budget constraints are going to be with the new ownership, but if Santander is projected to put up 3.0 WAR for $20 million and his replacement (Kjerstad/Cowser/Stowers...) can put up 2.5 WAR for less than a million then that will be factored in.  The goal will never be about being better than the other 29 teams in a payroll vacuum.
    • I think you have a good understanding and I assume you’ve read Ted Williams Science of Hitting.  It’s all about lining up planes of pitch and bat.  Historically with sinkers and low strikes a higher attack angle played and was more in alignment with pitch plane.  In today’s game of spin and high zone fastball an uppercut swing gives you minimal chance and results in top spin grounders and swing & miss. 
    • I'll bow to your expertise even if it seems unlikely to my laymen understanding. 
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...