Heyman: Orioles being aggressive

[Dipper9]

You don't think there's a potential difference between pursuing the marquee FA at a given position and pursuing guys whose markets are going to be defined by said FA?

The Orioles aren't going to wine/dine anyone into signing...they're going to have to throw the most money at XYZ player once XYZ player's market is established. And that hasn't happened yet.

Thank you Mr. MacPhail.

And THIS is why we don't get anyone!

You won't ever know if the chick likes you if you don't ask her out!

[Owen21]

This!

SG and I are not neccessarily advocating the Orioles trying to sign Lee. My point is that when the Yankees want something, they throw their resources and energy and focus into accomplishing that goal. When the Orioles have interest, they send a text message to the agent saying ..."we like you, do you like us? Check yes or no?"

Most likely due to our major shareholder's policies. I wish we could get the "best for us" owner in baseball, instead of the asbestos owner.

[Sanfran327]

Most likely due to our major shareholder's policies. I wish we could get the "best for us" owner in baseball, instead of the asbestos owner.

How long have you been waiting to use that one?

[Frobby]

Right...We make a few phone call and perhaps show some sort of interest...The Yankees fly down to Arkansas and meet with Lee face to face.

Do people not see the difference there?

Say what you want about the Yanks competitive advantage but they also go after what they want and meet with the players face to face. They don't make some bs cursory phone calls and let the market set itself.

I call BS on this one. The Yankees are in a different universe than we are. Lee is obviously their no. 1 target, he is in no way fungible with any other pitcher on the market, the Rangers obviously will offer him arbitration (therefore no downside in signing him before the deadline to offer arbitration). There's no point in going slow with Cliff Lee. The Yankees are going to offer him the most money, everyone knows it, so get on with it.

For the O's, meanwhile, the alternatives aren't as clear cut. To the extent they are going after Type A's, there may be several who are attractive only if their current team doesn't offer arbitration. At each spot where they have a need, there are at least a couple of different options, and price may be relevant to their priorities. Plus, it's doubtful that any free agents are going to quickly accept an offer from the Orioles unless they make an offer that is way over the top. So, why should MacPhail be flying all over the place at this point?

Do you see reports that the other 28 teams besides us and the Yankees have their GM's flying around to meet with players at this stage?

[DuffMan]

Funny story along the same lines: this morning, I'm commuting to work, and Dibble is talking about how if he were Cashman, he'd take Posada out to the nicest restaurant in NYC to discuss Jorge's future role on the team and cutting back his time behind the plate - all while running up a nice tab on the Yankees - because JP is a vet and deserves that kind of treatment. His next sentence was, "If it were with the Orioles, I'd probably take him to Chipotle because it would be on my dime, or I'd have to submit an expense report."

Obviously, he was making a joke, but that still tells you what the baseball community thinks about the state of our organization. If you (or any of us) think that that perception is going to land us a premium (**sigh**) free agent, think again.

You lost me at Dibble

[MrOrange82]

Thank you Mr. MacPhail.

And THIS is why we don't get anyone!

You won't ever know if the chick likes you if you don't ask her out!

Given the Orioles' current position as the red-headed stepchild with the pocket protector...yeah, we can be pretty sure that no one likes us.

Maybe if we grow up to be wealthy lawyers...

Money talks, boss. If you're going to blame MacPhail for something, blame him for not forking over enough cash to land quality guys...but setting up a situation in which he'd be bidding against himself would be extremely dumb.

[Sanfran327]

You lost me at Dibble

Respect his opinion or not, he still knows more about baseball (specifically the MLB community) than any of us, and has access to more information than we do. If that's the perception of the Baltimore Orioles by 'baseball people', then we are not in good shape.

[MrOrange82]

I call BS on this one. The Yankees are in a different universe than we are. Lee is obviously their no. 1 target, he is in no way fungible with any other pitcher on the market, the Rangers obviously will offer him arbitration (therefore no downside in signing him before the deadline to offer arbitration). There's no point in going slow with Cliff Lee. The Yankees are going to offer him the most money, everyone knows it, so get on with it.

For the O's, meanwhile, the alternatives aren't as clear cut. To the extent they are going after Type A's, there may be several who are attractive only if their current team doesn't offer arbitration. At each spot where they have a need, there are at least a couple of different options, and price may be relevant to their priorities. Plus, it's doubtful that any free agents are going to quickly accept an offer from the Orioles unless they make an offer that is way over the top. So, why should MacPhail be flying all over the place at this point?

Do you see reports that the other 28 teams besides us and the Yankees have their GM's flying around to meet with players at this stage?

Nuance has no place here, man.

[Sanfran327]

Given the Orioles' current position as the red-headed stepchild with the pocket protector...yeah, we can be pretty sure that no one likes us.

Maybe if we grow up to be wealthy lawyers...

Money talks, boss. If you're going to blame MacPhail for something, blame him for not forking over enough cash to land quality guys...but setting up a situation in which he'd be bidding against himself would be extremely dumb.

If you think Tex would have signed in Baltimore for the contract he got from the Yankees, I'll [expletive deleted].

[Sports Guy]

I call BS on this one. The Yankees are in a different universe than we are. Lee is obviously their no. 1 target, he is in no way fungible with any other pitcher on the market, the Rangers obviously will offer him arbitration (therefore no downside in signing him before the deadline to offer arbitration). There's no point in going slow with Cliff Lee. The Yankees are going to offer him the most money, everyone knows it, so get on with it.

For the O's, meanwhile, the alternatives aren't as clear cut. To the extent they are going after Type A's, there may be several who are attractive only if their current team doesn't offer arbitration. At each spot where they have a need, there are at least a couple of different options, and price may be relevant to their priorities. Plus, it's doubtful that any free agents are going to quickly accept an offer from the Orioles unless they make an offer that is way over the top. So, why should MacPhail be flying all over the place at this point?

Do you see reports that the other 28 teams besides us and the Yankees have their GM's flying around to meet with players at this stage?

Ahh, here come the excuses. I knew someone would come along with some view that they probably have every year and then wonder why things don't happen.

I don't care what other teams are doing, if they are flying around, etc...That means NOTHING. Are all of those teams a group of pathetic losers for 13 straight years? Are those guys the laughing stock of the baseball world?

But that's ok...let the excuses continue to flow out. At some point, people will run out of excuses and wonder why the Orioles can never have even a winning season and then they will say, gee I guess they are doing things incorrectly.

[MrOrange82]

If you think Tex would have signed in Baltimore for the contract he got from the Yankees, I'll [expletive deleted].

No, I think he'd have signed with the Orioles if they'd offered him a helluva lot more than the Yankees.

[Sports Guy]

Given the Orioles' current position as the red-headed stepchild with the pocket protector...yeah, we can be pretty sure that no one likes us.

Maybe if we grow up to be wealthy lawyers...

Money talks, boss. If you're going to blame MacPhail for something, blame him for not forking over enough cash to land quality guys...but setting up a situation in which he'd be bidding against himself would be extremely dumb.

So, no one likes us and your response to that is that its ok that we just sit on our hands and wait for things to happen? Great plan!

[Sanfran327]

No, I think he'd have signed with the Orioles if they'd offered him a helluva lot more than the Yankees.

Who already offered him a helluva lot more than the rest of baseball.

That's what the Yankees do to teams like us. They totally remove the little guy from the race when they are really intent on signing a player, because not only will they offer that player 125% of market value, they're also a much MUCH better organization to play for. You know you're gonna win when you play for the Yankees.

So, from AM's perspective, I have to agree that it's not worth it to sign Tex, because it would have probably taken $220M or so. He's not that good!!

I don't know how many times it has to be said here, but there was NO WAY MARK TEIXEIRA WAS GOING TO PLAY FOR BALTIMORE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER.

[MrOrange82]

Who already offered him a helluva lot more than the rest of baseball.

That's what the Yankees do to teams like us. They totally remove the little guy from the race when they are really intent on signing a player, because not only will they offer that player 125% of market value, they're also a much MUCH better organization to play for. You know you're gonna win when you play for the Yankees.

So, from AM's perspective, I have to agree that it's not worth it to sign Tex, because it would have probably taken $220M or so. He's not that good!!

I don't know how many times it has to be said here, but there was NO WAY MARK TEIXEIRA WAS GOING TO PLAY FOR BALTIMORE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHATSOEVER.

Now I don't know what we were arguing about.

[Stotle]

Right...We make a few phone call and perhaps show some sort of interest...The Yankees fly down to Arkansas and meet with Lee face to face.

Do people not see the difference there?

Say what you want about the Yanks competitive advantage but they also go after what they want and meet with the players face to face. They don't make some bs cursory phone calls and let the market set itself.

I call BS on this one. The Yankees are in a different universe than we are. Lee is obviously their no. 1 target, he is in no way fungible with any other pitcher on the market, the Rangers obviously will offer him arbitration (therefore no downside in signing him before the deadline to offer arbitration). There's no point in going slow with Cliff Lee. The Yankees are going to offer him the most money, everyone knows it, so get on with it.

For the O's, meanwhile, the alternatives aren't as clear cut. To the extent they are going after Type A's, there may be several who are attractive only if their current team doesn't offer arbitration. At each spot where they have a need, there are at least a couple of different options, and price may be relevant to their priorities. Plus, it's doubtful that any free agents are going to quickly accept an offer from the Orioles unless they make an offer that is way over the top. So, why should MacPhail be flying all over the place at this point?

Do you see reports that the other 28 teams besides us and the Yankees have their GM's flying around to meet with players at this stage?

Based on the tier of FAs BAL is likely to be approaching, I tend to agree with Frobby. However, I think SG is correct that BAL under MacPhail has been incredible passive and reactive in the off-season. That's good for finding deals and bargains, but it would also be nice to see a proactive plan put into motion. I think the end of November/beginning of December is a reasonable time to expect some aggressive moves. I don't expect it, but it would be nice to see.