Heyman: Orioles being aggressive

[Ohfan67]

Ahh, here come the excuses. I knew someone would come along with some view that they probably have every year and then wonder why things don't happen.

I don't care what other teams are doing, if they are flying around, etc...That means NOTHING. Are all of those teams a group of pathetic losers for 13 straight years? Are those guys the laughing stock of the baseball world?

But that's ok...let the excuses continue to flow out. At some point, people will run out of excuses and wonder why the Orioles can never have even a winning season and then they will say, gee I guess they are doing things incorrectly.

Excuses for what? The 2010 open free agency period is three days old. No team has signed another team's free agent. What did the O's do or not do that someone needs to make excuses for them?

[MrOrange82]

So, no one likes us and your response to that is that its ok that we just sit on our hands and wait for things to happen? Great plan!

Hyperbolize much?

My answer is if we like someone, we wait to see approximately how much his "market" salary would be, and then buy his affections by offering a significant percentage above that.

I guess the metaphorical equivalent for your perspective would be "get him as drunk as possible and then..." something unseemly. No means no, btw.

[Ohfan67]

Based on the tier of FAs BAL is likely to be approaching, I tend to agree with Frobby. However, I think SG is correct that BAL under MacPhail has been incredible passive and reactive in the off-season. That's good for finding deals and bargains, but it would also be nice to see a proactive plan put into motion. I think the end of November/beginning of December is a reasonable time to expect some aggressive moves. I don't expect it, but it would be nice to see.

Although I think SG's response was way over the top, I agree with the above statement. It is true that MacPhail and the O's haven't done much to make fans optimistic about the off season. I hope Buck has and is pushing MacPhail to be far more proactive and I hope MacPhail is wise enough to realize he needs to be more proactive. But of course Angelos is always the wild card. Will he let them be proactive?

[Sports Guy]

Hyperbolize much?

My answer is if we like someone, we wait to see approximately how much his "market" salary would be, and then buy his affections by offering a significant percentage above that.

I guess the metaphorical equivalent for your perspective would be "get him as drunk as possible and then..." something unseemly. No means no, btw.

Why should we wait for this? Anyone can figure this out just by using common sense for most of the players out there.

[Hank Scorpio]

Reality is harsh when it comes to free agency. You can put on whatever song and dance you want. Hand deliver Cliff Lee the jumbo-est bushel of steamed crabs you can find, tell him Baltimore fans would never spit on anyone (though their running backs might) and take him a 24 x 72 glossy framed picture of OPACY. That's nice, but irrelevant. At the end of the day it comes down to who lays out the most money.. and that is almost always the MFY.

Oh by the way, they're always in the hunt for the World Series.

We'll be realistic players in free agency once we are perceived as having a shot at the playoffs. Unfortunately, we're always going to be challenged in that department because of where we reside.

Reality sucks.

[MrOrange82]

Why should we wait for this? Anyone can figure this out just by using common sense for most of the players out there.

Are you really arguing that market commodities have static, inherent values that shouldn't be/aren't effected by other market participants?

[Sports Guy]

Are you really arguing that market commodities have static, inherent values that shouldn't be/aren't effected by other market participants?

No, I am saying that there is no reason for the Orioles to sit around and wait for other teams to go after players and then try to swoop in.

When has this worked? This is what they have done for years.

When are you guys going to open your eyes and see that what they like to do just doesn't work? What else needs to happen for you to get your head out of the sand and realize that the Orioles need to change their methods?

Go after what you want.

[Hank Scorpio]

No, I am saying that there is no reason for the Orioles to sit around and wait for other teams to go after players and then try to swoop in.

When has this worked? This is what they have done for years.

When are you guys going to open your eyes and see that what they like to do just doesn't work? What else needs to happen for you to get your head out of the sand and realize that the Orioles need to change their methods?

Go after what you want.

I agree with "go after what you want." I agree with "set the market."

But I would add, don't expect what you want to want you, especially when there are notoriously wreckless spenders out there. There are a handful of teams that are willing to overpay by $40MM once you've spent a large chunk of time making overtures.

[MrOrange82]

No, I am saying that there is no reason for the Orioles to sit around and wait for other teams to go after players and then try to swoop in.

When has this worked? This is what they have done for years.

When are you guys going to open your eyes and see that what they like to do just doesn't work? What else needs to happen for you to get your head out of the sand and realize that the Orioles need to change their methods?

Go after what you want.

What hasn't worked is either sitting on a "Wow" offer that's nowhere near the highest offer on the table (and thinking, "oh, he'll call if he wants something better), or beating the best offer of a much better team by only a couple million dollars over the span of a contract.

IMO, the timing of the Orioles' efforts hasn't been the main problem...it's their cash values.

[AZOriole]

I agree with "go after what you want." I agree with "set the market."

But I would add, don't expect what you want to want you, especially when there are notoriously wreckless spenders out there. There are a handful of teams that are willing to overpay by $40MM once you've spent a large chunk of time making overtures.

Exactly. And it's not like the Yankees haven't gone out and made stupid signings. They have. But they also have the resources (see: "money") to be able to afford to eat those mistakes. Most teams don't have that luxury. The Yankees are wreckless spenders, in my opinion. But they face little to no consequence in doing so.

[SrMeowMeow]

Funny story along the same lines: this morning, I'm commuting to work, and Dibble is talking about how if he were Cashman, he'd take Posada out to the nicest restaurant in NYC to discuss Jorge's future role on the team and cutting back his time behind the plate - all while running up a nice tab on the Yankees - because JP is a vet and deserves that kind of treatment. His next sentence was, "If it were with the Orioles, I'd probably take him to Chipotle because it would be on my dime, or I'd have to submit an expense report."

Obviously, he was making a joke, but that still tells you what the baseball community thinks about the state of our organization. If you (or any of us) think that that perception is going to land us a premium (**sigh**) free agent, think again.

Rob Dibble is a fool. Nobody should care what he thinks, or think it's representative of how the O's are viewed in the sport.

[Crazysilver03]

No, I am saying that there is no reason for the Orioles to sit around and wait for other teams to go after players and then try to swoop in.

When has this worked? This is what they have done for years.

When are you guys going to open your eyes and see that what they like to do just doesn't work? What else needs to happen for you to get your head out of the sand and realize that the Orioles need to change their methods?

Go after what you want.

The OP states that the Orioles are being aggressive, which is stated to be out of character.

Then everyone declares they will believe it when they see it. Most of MacPhails acquisitions have come with little build up. That is fact. Yet people get bent out of shape when there is a puff piece about the Yankees flying to Arkansas. They want an article to state that about the Orioles, when nothing like that has been printed under MacPhail.

[MrOrange82]

No, I am saying that there is no reason for the Orioles to sit around and wait for other teams to go after players and then try to swoop in.

When has this worked? This is what they have done for years.

When are you guys going to open your eyes and see that what they like to do just doesn't work? What else needs to happen for you to get your head out of the sand and realize that the Orioles need to change their methods?

Go after what you want.

Moreover, something that just struck me...

...if the Orioles went out and signed Dunn tomorrow for something like 4/64 or higher, I'd wager that you'd be all over the boards about how the contract is terrible.

Classic no-win...IMO, unless the Orioles do precisely what you want/acquire who you want, you're not going to be satisfied. This aggressiveness stance is directionless venting.

[Stotle]

My job requires me to participate in multimillion dollar negotiations as a principal fairly often. It kind of amazes me what most folks seem to think about these processes. None of us have nearly enough insight into what is going on to state anything with certainty. These threads are mostly a bunch of barking at the moon IMO. It that makes folks feel better I guess that is ok, but I fail to see the point.

Yes and no. Well, certainly we can't stay future actions with certainty -- and likely not current actions. But we have a record of how MacPhail has approached the off-season. He also operates in an industry that is fairly heavily reported upon.

Board members at the OH may not know where the negotiations stand with regards to a transaction on which I'm working , but they could certainly read in the Journal that a certain auto company was considering refinancing their credit line with a certain large bank.

Likewise, the nature of the Hot Stove is that a good amount of general info is leaked through the media. Fans may not know many specifics, but they can be informed as to general focuses of organizations with a fairly high degree of accuracy, in my opinion.

As I said above, I think it's early to expect specific actions, considering the likely targets of BAL. But two/three weeks from know I think it's valid to expect to have heard some generalities regarding some of BAL's focuses.

Just my $.02

[SrMeowMeow]

The flip-side of aggressively pursuing someone is overpaying them. I'd rather play it safe. And no, that doesn't mean play it cowardly, or stupid, or timid. It actually means smart. Mindless aggression because you're mad about losing seasons, most of which took place under DIFFERENT FRONT OFFICES and with COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ROSTERS, is not respectable.