Impressions from the B Team - Red Sox game

[Frobby]

GREAT PINCH RUNNER? based on what? He is a horrible base stealer, Reimold is considerably better, look it up and Pie has terrible instincts. Last night he was on first when Bell Doubled. He should have scored. Or at least a GREAT pinch runner would have.

I was surprised he didn't score there, too. But, I don't know if it's his fault, or whether Russell held him up without good reason.

Pie is not a good base stealer. That is established. He occasionally does something dumb on the bases. That also is established. But he is still an above average baserunner because he is so damned fast. Several times last year he scored or went to 3B on plays where an average runner could not. He scored all three times that he was on 1st and the hitter hit a double last year.

[SrMeowMeow]

I believe two things:

Pie is a better fit for the 4th outfielder role we have available right now

500 PA in the minors will do Reimold more good than 200 PA riding the bench

So, independent of which player I think is more valuable, Reimold to AAA makes the most sense.

[Tony-OH]

Reimold also gets ABs when Lee sits and Scott plays 1B, and when Vlad sits too. Both of those things are likely to happen with some regularity as both are over 35 years old.

Perhaps, but I don't see him able to get enough at bats. If he can get 400 at bats then I would be fine with him on the team, but it has to be along with a center fielder because unless Nick is going to go out there and give Jones a break, there's no one else that can play there besides Pie and Angle on the current 40-man.

[jiminnj]

For those questioning where ABs come from look back in Orioles history.

In 1971 we had a great OF of Robinson in right, Blair in center, and Buford in left. We had a promising 28 year old, Merv Rettenmund, who had about 600 ABs in 3 previous seasons that he had split between the minors and majors. In 1971 no one had serious injuries that put anyone the DL for an extended period. Buford got 549 PAs, Blair got 555 PAs, and Robinson got 545 PAs. Rettenmund actually topped the other 3 with 589 plate appearances. Rettenmund led the team in BA but Buford and Robinson topped him in OPS.

If Reimold is up, Buck can easily find plenty of plate appearances for him. It has been done in the past. Buck also has an additional position, DH, to work Reimold in at that wasn't available in 1971.

[Arthur_Bryant]

What is not to understand? Your definition, "WAR describes what a player has done in the past" I repeat, no one with eyes can say that in the past, Pie has been a better player then Reimold. Teach me something here, what am I not understanding?

To reiterate, since you use the phrase in the bolded: WAR doesn't say who is the better player. It just rolls up all the significant stats into a single number.

Now, using the Fangraphs version:

2009, Pie was worth 1.1 WAR, Reimold was 1.2, but the difference was bigger if you don't count fielding.

2010 Pie was worth .3 WAR; Reimold was a negative, -0.4 -- which makes sense because he contributed almost nothing.

For two years: Reimold .8 WAR, Pie 1.4 WAR. It's an insignificant difference, especially over two years.

If you look at the actual production that the two players have put up since 2009, I think you'll find that they aren't far apart, either. Reimold has 124 hits, has 18 HR, and has scored 58 runs. Pie has 146 hits, 14 HR, and has scored 77 runs. They each have exactly 205 total bases.

Those are the numbers. If your eyes tell you that Reimold has actually produced much more than Pie at the plate since 2009, then I don't know what to say. The numbers are the numbers.

You can quarrel with the fielding numbers if you want, and that's the weakest link in any statistical overview, but overall the WAR figures accurately reflect each player's actual offensive contributions.

WAR doesn't measure mental errors, attitude, overall polish and awareness, or hustle, except to the extent that those things are reflected in the numbers. Reimold might actually be a better player, and if I had to choose one player between him and Pie to have on my team, Reimold would be my choice.He just hasn't contributed more than Pie so far.

[Frobby]

For those questioning where ABs come from look back in Orioles history.

In 1971 we had a great OF of Robinson in right, Blair in center, and Buford in left. We had a promising 28 year old, Merv Rettenmund, who had about 600 ABs in 3 previous seasons that he had split between the minors and majors. In 1971 no one had serious injuries that put anyone the DL for an extended period. Buford got 549 PAs, Blair got 555 PAs, and Robinson got 545 PAs. Rettenmund actually topped the other 3 with 589 plate appearances. Rettenmund led the team in BA but Buford and Robinson topped him in OPS.

If Reimold is up, Buck can easily find plenty of plate appearances for him. It has been done in the past. Buck also has an additional position, DH, to work Reimold in at that wasn't available in 1971.

It seems like the game has changed a bit since 1971 in this regard. Managers were more apt to rest their star players then. Frank was 35 and Buford was 34, so they needed some rest. And that team could afford to rest star players with the talent they had and the lead they were playing with. I'd be very surprised if Markakis and Jones combined sit a total of 20 games, barring injuries.

[waroriole]

Meh. Last spring, Jonathan Tucker, Miguel Abreu, Justin Turner, Brandon Snyder, Lou Montanez and Rhyne Hughes all hit .300+ in spring training. It is not that meaningful. And I expect Buck to say complimentary things when a young player has a good day.

Again, I'm not denigrating Mahoney. As I said in my OP, I like what I saw yesterday. Let's see how Mahoney does in 2011 and maybe he will warrant your enthusiasm.

I agree with this. Mahoney had a good year last year, but I'm not convinced yet. If he does it again this year in AA and AAA, then I might see him as more of a prospect.

[Sports Guy]

I agree with this. Mahoney had a good year last year, but I'm not convinced yet. If he does it again this year in AA and AAA, then I might see him as more of a prospect.

Yea...He may "look the part" but right now, he really isn't much of a prospect.

He had a nice stretch in AA in a small sample size and clearly has some talent but he was never anything special before that...and that was at an advanced age for his league.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I was surprised he didn't score there, too. But, I don't know if it's his fault, or whether Russell held him up without good reason.

Pie is not a good base stealer. That is established. He occasionally does something dumb on the bases. That also is established. But he is still an above average baserunner because he is so damned fast. Several times last year he scored or went to 3B on plays where an average runner could not. He scored all three times that he was on 1st and the hitter hit a double last year.

And don't forget last year's home opener, where Pie scored from first on a single - let me repeat that, he scored from FIRST on a SINGLE - with the go ahead run. If Gonzalez hadn't promptly blown the save, that might have been one of the plays of the year.

[jiminnj]

It seems like the game has changed a bit since 1971 in this regard. Managers were more apt to rest their star players then. Frank was 35 and Buford was 34, so they needed some rest. And that team could afford to rest star players with the talent they had and the lead they were playing with. I'd be very surprised if Markakis and Jones combined sit a total of 20 games, barring injuries.

But Reimold would sub for Vlad and Lee (with Scott playing 1B) in addition to Markakis and Jones and Scott. Vlad and Lee are 1 year signs, to have them sit some games should not be that big an issue, especially if Reimold is looking like a future long-term solution during the year, something that Lee, Vlad and probably Scott are not.

[wildcard]

Meh. Last spring, Jonathan Tucker, Miguel Abreu, Justin Turner, Brandon Snyder, Lou Montanez and Rhyne Hughes all hit .300+ in spring training. It is not that meaningful. And I expect Buck to say complimentary things when a young player has a good day.

Again, I'm not denigrating Mahoney. As I said in my OP, I like what I saw yesterday. Let's see how Mahoney does in 2011 and maybe he will warrant your enthusiasm.

I have not seen Buck say that very many minor leaguers "have it". He hasn't said that about Angle, Snyder, Florimon, Spoone, Viola or Patton. He has said " that is what they look like" about Britton and Mahoney.

Buck is not as free with the high praise and you make it sound IMO.

[wildcard]

A lot of posters seem to think that Pie and Reimold are competing for the same spot. I think Pie has a spot as the 4th OF because he is needed to back up CF. Reimold is not even in the running for that spot.

Reimold IMO is competing with Bell, Harris, Andino and (Tatum or Fox) for the 25th man spot.

Tatum and Fox are competing for the backup catcher spot. The one that loses could still make the team as the 25th man.

At least that what I think is happening.

[waroriole]

I have not seen Buck say that very many minor leaguers "have it". He hasn't said that about Angle, Snyder, Florimon, Spoone, Viola or Patton. He has said " that is what they look like" about Britton and Mahoney.

Buck is not as free with the high praise and you make it sound IMO.

Maybe it's because you're looking for it with Mahoney, but not anybody else. Buck has also been very complimentary of Drese too.

[Frobby]

I have not seen Buck say that very many minor leaguers "have it". He hasn't said that about Angle, Snyder, Florimon, Spoone, Viola or Patton. He has said " that is what they look like" about Britton and Mahoney.

Buck is not as free with the high praise and you make it sound IMO.

I am not into drawing grand conclusions from every sentence that comes out of the manager's mouth. If you want to read great significance into it, be my guest.

[wildcard]

Maybe it's because you're looking for it with Mahoney, but not anybody else. Buck has also been very complimentary of Drese too.

I read everything I can get my hands on about the O's. Buck talks about Drese for a different reason. Buck is the reason he was invited to camp. Buck had him on his staff in Texas.

Buck has not reason to say anything about Mahoney unless he thinks he is good.