All signs point to major improvements

[rolliefingers]

They did want to pay him the money he wanted. He didn't want to come here, thankfully. They were saved from themselves by the player's decision. Same as the Jeromy Burnitz deal. BTW, there certainly wasn't a consensus here about Pavano, IIRC.

Nnyeah! What RZ said!

[Sports Guy]

You guys are right....I's still pissed they didn't pay Pavano the money he wanted.

I am amazed at how much you are defending these guys as of late.

[Frobby]

I am amazed at how much you are defending these guys as of late.

BB has made it clear for a long time that he likes Duquette.

[rolliefingers]

BB has made it clear for a long time that he likes Duquette.

What does Duquette have to do with Pavano?

[Sports Guy]

BB has made it clear for a long time that he likes Duquette.

As do I but i don't think Duq has enough influence in the organization, so therefore, poor decisions are going to be made.

[Frobby]

Right, because PA has done extensive market research and statistical analyses, and he has scientifically concluded that $10 million is the absolute most any pitcher, ever, should make.

Any by that, I mean that he pulled that number directly out of his ass.

I am looking at this more charitably. It isn't that PA would never pay a free agent pitcher more than $10 mm/year. It's that the organization has decided that the three guys who will earn more than that this winter aren't at all likely to come here and/or worth pursuing, and that they are better off focusing their energies elswewhere. If that's the rationale, it's OK with me.

In response to your inquiry to me -- Duquette had nothing to do with Pavano. I was just pointing out that BB has not been as critical of the Oriole adminisitration since Duquette came on board.

Pavano does serve as a poster boy for the dangers of giving huge $$ to free agent pitchers who have only had one or two good years. I don't feel that Zito or Schmidt are comaparable to Pavano in that regard. The Japanese guy, I have no opinion of one way or the other.

[rolliefingers]

I am looking at this more charitably. It isn't that PA would never pay a free agent pitcher more than $10 mm/year. It's that the organization has decided that the three guys who will earn more than that this winter aren't at all likely to come here and/or worth pursuing, and that they are better off focusing their energies elswewhere. If that's the rationale, it's OK with me.

In response to your inquiry to me -- Duquette had nothing to do with Pavano. I was just pointing out that BB has not been as critical of the Oriole adminisitration since Duquette came on board.

Pavano does serve as a poster boy for the dangers of giving huge $$ to free agent pitchers who have only had one or two good years. I don't feel that Zito or Schmidt are comaparable to Pavano in that regard. The Japanese guy, I have no opinion of one way or the other.

You could be right. I guess Zito and Schmidt are the only ones who will make more than $10 mil, and you're right that they probably aren't coming here, so why bother? etc.

I just hate that we aren't even trying. Schmidt would be a huge upgrade for this team.

I also hate that they'll probably spend 3/27 on a guy like Lilly (because that's under the magic number that came from nowhere) when they could just keep Lopez and Benson for less money and fewer years.

As I and others have said, I'd rather sign NO pitching than get anyone other than Schmidt.

[Frobby]

I also hate that they'll probably spend 3/27 on a guy like Lilly (because that's under the magic number that came from nowhere) when they could just keep Lopez and Benson for less money and fewer years.

As I and others have said, I'd rather sign NO pitching than get anyone other than Schmidt.

I tend to agree with you, unless we pull off a trade that sends Cabrera or one of the other pitchers elsewhere for a major bat like Tex. In that case, getting a solid no. 3 type makes some sense.

[Sports Guy]

I tend to agree with you, unless we pull off a trade that sends Cabrera or one of the other pitchers elsewhere for a major bat like Tex. In that case, getting a solid no. 3 type makes some sense.

Can we even consider guys like Lilly and Suppan definite solid #3's?(assuming health)

[Mackus]

Can we even consider guys like Lilly and Suppan definite solid #3's?(assuming health)

I'd say no. Pettite I think we could assume would be a solid #3, but I think its unlikely that he comes here or comes for less than $10M.

[Frobby]

Can we even consider guys like Lilly and Suppan definite solid #3's?(assuming health)

It all depends on your definition of what a "solid no. 3" is. What I mean is a guy who is likely to give you 180-200 IP and an ERA somewhere in the 4.20-4.80 range. By that definition, I'd say Lilly and Suppan qualify. Now, whether you want to pay FA money for a guy like that is another story.

[Sports Guy]

It all depends on your definition of what a "solid no. 3" is. What I mean is a guy who is likely to give you 180-200 IP and an ERA somewhere in the 4.20-4.80 range. By that definition, I'd say Lilly and Suppan qualify. Now, whether you want to pay FA money for a guy like that is another story.

I have alot more confidence in Lilly than Suppan. Lilly would be the guy to get but even he has some sketchy peripherals and i am not sure it is the way to go.

Personally, any starter not named Zito, Pettitte, Matzusaka or Schmidt, that is signed to a multi-year deal is basically pissing your money away IMO.

[Witchy_Chick]

I think that if it came down to a million to get a Schmidt, we would do it. But I have no problems with the plan as it appears to be shaping up.

I think he goes for more than that. I would like to see us offer something like 4/40.If a few extra million gets it done,go for it. But if he starts getting offers anywhere close to Oswalt, stay clear.

Even though we will almost certainly have to throw an extra million at Schmidt (or any other FA signing attempt), I doubt that we do so. Historically speaking, we rarely throw “extra” money at someone.

Schmidt makes $10.5mil. now He's going to want and get a lot more per year from the Yankees or the Mets or the Red Sox. Probably at least $13mil. per. What will we have to offer to get him to not pitch for a contender.

Bingo. That starts approaching Angelos’ proclaimed “lunacy” territory.

My only issue with signing a FA pitcher is one of "overload." If we acquire a pitcher (either thru FA or trade) and end up wanting to trade away another guy (Benson?), has guy #2's value decreased because we essentially have to unload him (think Ramon signing and Javy situation)? Do we have the ability to make multiple and contingent moves? We'll see. I, with good reason, have my doubts.

Witchy

[Sports Guy]

Let's say we want Schmidt. He tells us he would sign here if we offered him a 4/56 deal.

We are prepared to offer 4/40.

If we have all of this money to spend, are they really going to let 4 million a year effect them?

I mean, if you give him a signing bonus, you can pay more of it up front for his better years.

We have all this MASN money and we are going to allow a few million a year to stop us from getting the guy we want?

That my friends is lunacy.

[rolliefingers]

Let's say we want Schmidt. He tells us he would sign here if we offered him a 4/56 deal.

We are prepared to offer 4/40.

If we have all of this money to spend, are they really going to let 4 million a year effect them?

I mean, if you give him a signing bonus, you can pay more of it up front for his better years.

We have all this MASN money and we are going to allow a few million a year to stop us from getting the guy we want?

That my friends is lunacy.

I think 4/56 would do it, too. Less than Oswalt.