This team won't finish above .500 and they should be sellers!

[Guest rochester]

I think you must have misread. We didn't GET 21 men on base let alone leave them there.

We did strand a ton of runners, many at 3rd.

Thanks Steve. Actually I was so stunned at first I realized I read it wrong.

[DrungoHazewood]

Baseball is full of pecks and valleys. Currently our offense is in a Valley. Last night game with any clutch hitting they would have won despite Matusz start, an infielder playing LF.

See a lot people wanting to point out the 3-40 with RISP over the last 7 games. Anyone wants to point out the 6 games before that when they went 18-53.

Before that people point at the 13 games at the end of May and Early June were they won only 3 of those 13 games. How did they respond by winning 9 of the next 12.

People wanting to be sellers or these post after every lost, is a pretty good definition of a reactionary post.

I do not think this team is perfect starting pitching struggles at time, defense has its problem, I think a true Outfield would have caught Trout double and Pujols HR last night. But this season has be fun, were almost finished June and there is a very good chance we will have 3 straight winning months.

Baseball Season is 162 games, no one has every gone 162-0

The Orioles are unlikely to make the playoffs this year. It's still an open question whether they finish over .500. But they are 9 games over .500 in late June. They have had a string of slumps and injuries that has been pretty ugly, and the schedule has not been overly kind, but they still have a winning record in June. They're almost guaranteed to have a winning record at the All Star break.

You ride it out until its over. They're not selling, they're not getting rid of key pieces to set up 2015. This is still the team I thought would win 70 games this year, so every win is gravy. Enjoy it, folks.

[Guest rochester]

Yes, 21. And LAAAA of A near Disneyland north of LA left 19 on.

And if WE had 2 on with one out, it counts as TWO if we make the 2nd out. Counts as two AGAIN if we make the third out.

I got yer strawman right 'ere!

WhoTH started this worthless thread? I'm out of (neg) rep.

Got it Scott... was being umm.. reactionary.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think if this season has shown us something, is that a lot of the people who claimed we were 31st out of 32 teams in talent level (cough, Sportsguy, cough) were dead wrong.

There are only 30 MLB teams. But I still think a poll conducted in mid-March would have gotten many votes for the O's talent being 31st in the baseball world.

This team really isn't that far away from being an annual contender.

Well, maybe. I think you could convince me that this is a .500 true talent team, and with development of some of Bundy, Machado, School, Delmonico, etc, and some shrewd acquisitions from DD they could be in a pretty good position. But some of their success is magic fairy dust - the bullpen has been astounding, probably 7 or 8 wins over replacement, and you can't count on no-name astounding bullpens every year.

[DrungoHazewood]

Got it Scott... was being umm.. reactionary.

How can you leave 21 men on base when you only had seven hits, four walks, and the Angels only made one error? Did I miss 9 HBP or catcher's interference?

[hallmt18]

It seems like the pendulum swings back and forth so dramatically between "We should be buyers" and "We should be sellers!"

Do we NEED to go "all in" either way? Why can't we do both? It would be nice to explore adding a piece or two that we need to see if we can stay in the hunt this year, while also keeping in mind that we want to be good for the next decade and not sell out the whole future.

Maybe this team deals a couple of prospects to get a good starter, but also turns around and trades one of our really good middle relievers to get a couple of prospects. (this would make sense to me, since we do appear to have some depth in terms of relievers right now).

The team needs to explore possible deals in both realms: Win Now and Build for the Future, and take the best deals that are out there either way.

[Aglets]

How can you leave 21 men on base when you only had seven hits, four walks, and the Angels only made one error? Did I miss 9 HBP or catcher's interference?

Assume that Player A leads off an inning with a double.

The next 3 batters all make outs, stranding Player A on base.

That is one man left on base, but do each of the 3 batters get 'charged' with a LOB in the scorebook?

[slowey404]

How can you leave 21 men on base when you only had seven hits, four walks, and the Angels only made one error? Did I miss 9 HBP or catcher's interference?

Team LOB was only 9. But I think the 21 comes from the totally number of players left on base. Like When they had the basesloaded last night, Tolleson and Andino both got out so each left 3 man on base so 6 total. But the team left only 3 on base.

[Pickles]

There are only 30 MLB teams. But I still think a poll conducted in mid-March would have gotten many votes for the O's talent being 31st in the baseball world.

Haha, yes, I caught that after I wrote it and am unable to edit.

However, I do agree that several people would have gladly said the O's were 31st out of 30th. I always thought that was hyperbole. When you look at are org compared to Oak, Sea, KC, Hou, Pitt, ChiN, SD, we have far more talent. I think we're middle of the pack honestly.

Well, maybe. I think you could convince me that this is a .500 true talent team, and with development of some of Bundy, Machado, School, Delmonico, etc, and some shrewd acquisitions from DD they could be in a pretty good position. But some of their success is magic fairy dust - the bullpen has been astounding, probably 7 or 8 wins over replacement, and you can't count on no-name astounding bullpens every year.

Yeah, I have no problem saying the true talent of thee team is in the 500 range. I hardly think that's controversial, and yes, I think we've outperformed where we "should" be mostly, as you say, on the strength of an unsustainably excellent bullpen.

But if we're in the 500 range, then you only need 10 more wins to be where you need to be. With the best pitching prospect in the minors, and another top 10 overall prospect probably in Baltimore in the next 12 months, some of that is covered internally, perhaps all of it, but that's probably best case scenario. I think one or two more outside acquistions need to be made, but we're not that far off imo. That's not to say it will come together, but this team doesn't need to be trading AS CFers and what not to bring in multiple prospects to make up for a huge lag in talent.

[hoosiers]

I agree the main goal of this Duq/Angelos team appears to be to win as many games as possible while building up a strong farm system.

Perhaps this thread is reactionary, perhaps not. I do not believe that is relevant to the core discussion of whether we should be sellers.

With the Os being so irrelevant for so long, it is very tempting to consider ways to boost the winning chances of the major league team including trading plus prospects (not named Bundy or Machado) and/or taking on payroll. The coming break in the schedule also provides some reason for confidence that the team can remain in the hunt for a while longer as done the pending return of Markakis and perhaps Britton and the better recent results from Tillman.

All that said, I would be a seller. In particular, assuming the price is right (and the price would be high), I would move Hammel in a big package and I would move most anyone in our bullpen for a high return.

Management owes it to the major league team to let them fight on, but come mid-late July, if we are on the outside looking in, I would part with a lot of our major contributors in the right deal - especially on the pitching side.

[callahan09]

The game tonight was just a perfect example of what is wrong with this team. It's not a reactionary thread at all.

.246 batting average - 11th in AL

.308 on base percentage - 12th in AL

93 home runs - tied for 3rd in AL

307 runs - tied for 8th in AL

.721 on base + slugging percentage - 8th in AL

585 strike outs - 2nd in AL

79 double plays grounded into - 1st in AL

If you think those are the stats of a good offense please tell me how. Like I said, without the longball the offense would be horrible. They can't get on base and when they do they lead the league in double plays and are second in strikeouts. Even with the 3rd most HR in the league they are 8th in runs scored. The offense is bad.

If you want me to bring up the pitching stats to prove what I said about the pitching please let me know and I will.

I'm a total amateur at *interpreting* baseball statistics, but I have to figure that being near last in OBP and while having the most double plays grounded into is very, very bad.

[SilentJames]

I'm a total amateur at *interpreting* baseball statistics, but I have to figure that being near last in OBP and while having the most double plays grounded into is very, very bad.

The OPS stat - We are literally .007 away from League average. Like we are talking one good week.

OBP is really the only thing that is really troubling at the moment.

[Ooooooohhhh!!!!]

I only skimmed some of the thread and I know it's been said already, but after 14 years of losing I can't believe people want to trade away players when we're nine games over .500 and in 2nd place. I don't care if it's smoke and mirrors. This has to be a joke. It's a good thing JTrea isn't here anymore. His head would have gone supernova when he read this.

I have an idea. Someone go to Buck and tell him you think we can't compete and should be sellers. See what he says.

[mi_oriolesfan]

I only skimmed some of the thread and I know it's been said already, but after 14 years of losing I can't believe people want to trade away players when we're nine games over .500 and in 2nd place. I don't care if it's smoke and mirrors. This has to be a joke. It's a good thing JTrea isn't here anymore. His head would have gone supernova when he read this.

I have an idea. Someone go to Buck and tell him you think we can't compete and should be sellers. See what he says.

Rep'd.

[DrungoHazewood]

OBP is really the only thing that is really troubling at the moment.

That's kind of like saying that the only thing the up-and-coming young center on the basketball team has to worry about is the fact he's 5' 8".