Jim Johnson Today, 2013

[Can_of_corn]

How many saves he have last year without a blowing one? He can't do it again? So if he ends the season with 7 or 8 then what? You all gonna say you were wrong? Highly doubt it. It's the chicken little, no patience, no comprehension of slumps and hot streaks that just frustrates the chit outta me here. Obviously most of you never played the game at a high enough level to understand how difficult it is. Some times I wonder why I even bother.

Even if he went the rest of the season with a .8 ERA and 0 blown saves I would not want him on the team next season. He isn't worth 6 million this year and won't be worth what he would get in arbitration next year.

Only way I would consider taking him back is as a non-tender that resigns for a pay cut.

[Mondo Trasho]

Well, Johnson has been a closer for 1 1/2 seasons. He was great last season, and not so great this season. So I'm not sure what you mean by saying we were lucky he's been so good so long. I would say that most closers only have one or two good seasons, then you move them on or bring up the next guy. Only Rivera and Trevor Hoffman (and you could thrown in Billy Wagner as well) in the steroid/post steroid era had any lengthy success as a closer. You always have guys come out of nowhere to put up monster save numbers for a year or two. Then you never hear from them again or they bounce to some other team. Your post is a good argument for moving on to someone else.

I'd add Troy Percival to that list too.

But you're right. Closers don't usually last a long time. Better to move on before any of them get too costly or lose effectiveness.

[calmunderfire]

The reason it's hard to find effective closers is because you are dealing with C level pitchers in the bullpen. The good pitchers typically start games. It's just the way it is.

Put the staff ace in the 9th with just 3 guys to get out and it wouldn't be fair.

[NJOsFan]

Kinda depressing to go back and read the first few pages of this thread. The promise and excitement was abundant.

[333WCamden]

Nobody is denying that all 9 innings matter. But the most obvious point you miss here, and in that other thread is you somehow want to make the 1st 8 innings and what happens in those 8 innings somehow equal to, or as much responsible for a loss when JJ blows his save opportunity. And once again, here and in the other thread you clearly fail to recognize the obvious fact that JJ's teammates did their part for 8 innings and when it came time for him to do his part in just one inning - that would be the 9th inning - he did NOT come thru and do his part. His job is the CLOSER. The CLOSER's job is to hold a lead that the rest of the team worked 8 innings to give him.

Should the team have scored more than 2 runs? It would have been nice, but they did their job and they took a lead into that final inning.

Instead of criticizing and blaming the sorry bunch that only got 2 runs, why not criticize the CLOSER who only needed to get 3 outs against a team that had only scored 1 run up to that point in the game? Why not criticize the CLOSER who gave up TWICE as many runs as all the other pitchers did for 8 innings? Why make these futile attempts at defending the indefensible?

Good post. Would it be any different if the score was 9-8 instead of 2-1? The only way you could take responsibility away from JJ for Fridays loss is if someone else had made the error instead of him. You could make an argument for it being Bucks responsibility, but nobody else on the field that night.

[HokieOs]

The reason it's hard to find effective closers is because you are dealing with C level pitchers in the bullpen. The good pitchers typically start games. It's just the way it is.

Put the staff ace in the 9th with just 3 guys to get out and it wouldn't be fair.

.... or you're dealing with guys who really only have one or two pitches... or guys who just don't have the stamina to go long distances but can take care of an inning or two... or even a few more (like Hunter and McFarland).

The fact is, Johnson doesn't have the command he had last year. But if I'm going to be real honest, even last year, Johnson's great save and ERA numbers looked like smoke and mirrors. I never felt truly safe with him in the game. It seemed like in every save, he always got guys on and happened to escape. This year, he isn't escaping.

[MagicBird]

The only way you could take responsibility away from JJ for Fridays loss is if someone else had made the error instead of him. You could make an argument for it being Bucks responsibility, but nobody else on the field that night.

Exactly right. Its a team game, but each individual has a responsibility for contributing to the success of the team. As a closer that responsibility is magnified. JJ just hasnt lived up to his responsibility in that role too many times. Its not a knock on him as a person, just his performance. And as a MLB player its all about results.

[PaulFolk]

Nobody is denying that all 9 innings matter. But the most obvious point you miss here, and in that other thread is you somehow want to make the 1st 8 innings and what happens in those 8 innings somehow equal to, or as much responsible for a loss when JJ blows his save opportunity.

Did you read my original post? Here it is again:

"Of course Johnson shoulders the bulk of the blame for the losses, but certainly not all of it."

How you interpret that as giving "equal" weight to everyone for the loss is beyond me.

Instead of criticizing and blaming the sorry bunch that only got 2 runs, why not criticize the CLOSER who only needed to get 3 outs against a team that had only scored 1 run up to that point in the game? Why not criticize the CLOSER who gave up TWICE as many runs as all the other pitchers did for 8 innings? Why make these futile attempts at defending the indefensible?

Again, how about reading my post? The one where I said Johnson pitched terribly and shouldn't be closing games for now? Are you just making up a fictional poster to argue against?

The difference is that I'm not a reactionary radio talk show caller. I prefer to think intelligently about all the factors that go into a game rather than just pointing the finger at one guy and calling him solely responsible for everything that goes wrong.

[MagicBird]

I'm not a reactionary radio talk show caller. I prefer to think intelligently about all the factors that go into a game

[Crazysilver03]

What an intelligent response.

[crissfan172]

What an intelligent response.

I thought the picture was quite apt for his side of the argument.

[MagicBird]

This is how you do it JJ!

Congrats!

Lets hope we started a new run of saves.

[Scrat1]

Gentleman, looks like we may be riding this roller coaster all season long.

[Spy Fox]

Buck is going to lose the clubhouse because of his blind loyalty to Jim Johnson and Adam Jones.

[Tbone83]

Funny how that throwing strikes thing works.