Interesting quotes from a beleaguered Buck Showalter...

[weams]

Let me guess, this is going to be a 23-page thread fighting over the defintions of "is", "more than" and "yes". And finding great, deep meaning on the exact details of the future of the organization in throwaway quotes from a manager's postgame presser.

It is going to take more than three years for the fan base to embrace the fact that we have a winning culture. And Jonathan French has always believed that Peter Angelos would spend all his money on this team if only asked. By Andy, By Buck, By Dan, and by...wait for it...us.

[JTrea81]

It is going to take more than three years for the fan base to embrace the fact that we have a winning culture. And Jonathan French has always believed that Peter Angelos would spend all his money on this team if only asked. By Andy, By Buck, By Dan, and by...wait for it...us.

I used to believe that, this is true, however now, I get that Angelos will only allow a certain level of spending. However the resource allocation can always be changed, as can the instruction. Duquette could have changed coaches, jettisoned some higher price players, made trades etc. and still have stayed within his budget IMO, and the team would have been better for it. But he didn't and then tried to sell that the team now needed to only be "competitive" as the goal. As I've said, remarkably it worked, but only up until September when fans realized this team would not make the playoffs. Then fans' eyes opened and saw what we did not do last offseason. It took longer than I thought, but it did happen as I predicted. The company line is "competitive baseball" and until that changes, that's likely all this team will shoot for, hoping to get "lucky" and have things line up like they did in 2012. And we don't have to ask - as we control the ultimate future of the team. No fan interest = no Orioles. If the Orioles try to pull an offseason of "competitive baseball" as the goal again, I highly doubt fans are going to embrace that anytime soon. And if they do - then it's on them for not wanting more for their entertainment $.

[BRobinsonfan]

I used to believe that, this is true, however now, I get that Angelos will only allow a certain level of spending. However the resource allocation can always be changed, as can the instruction. Duquette could have changed coaches, jettisoned some higher price players, made trades etc. and still have stayed within his budget IMO, and the team would have been better for it. But he didn't and then tried to sell that the team now needed to only be "competitive" as the goal.

Soooooo..... what you're saying is that we can achieve the World Series and stay within the budget....but management would just rather not do that because they just want to screw with us?

Got it.

[DrungoHazewood]

Duquette could have changed coaches... and the team would have been better for it.

It's still incumbent upon you to produce evidence that changing the coaches would have the desired effect. Since your ideas appear to have no objective, non-anecdotal basis the burden of proof is on you. Until then I will continue to assume your position on people like Presley is uninformed (or misinformed, if you will) nonsense.

But he didn't and then tried to sell that the team now needed to only be "competitive" as the goal. ... The company line is "competitive baseball" and until that changes, that's likely all this team will shoot for, hoping to get "lucky" and have things line up like they did in 2012.

But that is the goal. Being competitive has to be the goal. The Orioles, each and every year, are trying to assemble the best team possible on 40% or 60% of the payroll of their direct competition. It is ridiculous to expect a near-garanteed playoff team each and every year when you start off with that much of a handicap.

And we don't have to ask - as we control the ultimate future of the team. No fan interest = no Orioles. If the Orioles try to pull an offseason of "competitive baseball" as the goal again, I highly doubt fans are going to embrace that anytime soon. And if they do - then it's on them for not wanting more for their entertainment $.

Did you not witness the 1998-2011 era? The Orioles lost the majority of their fanbase, going from a team that sold out every game in a 47k seat stadium to a team that had trouble drawing 10k on weeknights. And did that change the fortunes of the team? No, of course it didn't. All it did was cement in ownership's mind the idea that revenues are not guaranteed, and that fairly strict financial restrictions on player acquisition are a fact of life.

Not only will the team "try to pull an offseason of 'competitive baseball'" this year, but they will do that every year, as that is the goal of a team in the Orioles' position. They're trying to be like the Rays - in contention most years, around 90 wins more often than not. That's not pulling anything. That's reality. If you can't accept that, then you need to move on to another team.

[weams]

I don't remember all the convoluted details, but at least at one point Trea (or his online persona) was convinced that Angelos was more than willing to open the checkbook but someone was deviously standing in his way.

Andy was the devil. He was simply using his conservative money grubbing approach to impress the other owners so he could be commissioner and make 22 million a year.

[weams]

I used to believe that, this is true, however now, I get that Angelos will only allow a certain level of spending. However the resource allocation can always be changed, as can the instruction. Duquette could have changed coaches, jettisoned some higher price players, made trades etc. and still have stayed within his budget IMO, and the team would have been better for it. But he didn't and then tried to sell that the team now needed to only be "competitive" as the goal. As I've said, remarkably it worked, but only up until September when fans realized this team would not make the playoffs. Then fans' eyes opened and saw what we did not do last offseason. It took longer than I thought, but it did happen as I predicted. The company line is "competitive baseball" and until that changes, that's likely all this team will shoot for, hoping to get "lucky" and have things line up like they did in 2012. And we don't have to ask - as we control the ultimate future of the team. No fan interest = no Orioles. If the Orioles try to pull an offseason of "competitive baseball" as the goal again, I highly doubt fans are going to embrace that anytime soon. And if they do - then it's on them for not wanting more for their entertainment $.

Your predictions are no more valid than your former beliefs. I do believe that you have morphed. Good. This is not a tout site. And Incarcerated Bob posts both sides of a prediction. And deletes his incorrect one.

[weams]

Changing coaches against a manager's (who will be in charge through 2018) wishes in the middle of a season is simply an attention grabbing stunt. Not actual, you know, baseball.

[weams]

Soooooo..... what you're saying is that we can achieve the World Series and stay within the budget....but management would just rather not do that because they just want to screw with us?

Got it.

Everyone knows that there were many incongruous things that happened in the warehouse for many years. Tony had much for info than he ever divulged here. But the bolded premise? Na. This is not a comic book world where things like THAT happen.

[TiredofLosing20]

I used to believe that, this is true, however now, I get that Angelos will only allow a certain level of spending. However the resource allocation can always be changed, as can the instruction. Duquette could have changed coaches, jettisoned some higher price players, made trades etc. and still have stayed within his budget IMO, and the team would have been better for it. But he didn't and then tried to sell that the team now needed to only be "competitive" as the goal. As I've said, remarkably it worked, but only up until September when fans realized this team would not make the playoffs. Then fans' eyes opened and saw what we did not do last offseason. It took longer than I thought, but it did happen as I predicted. The company line is "competitive baseball" and until that changes, that's likely all this team will shoot for, hoping to get "lucky" and have things line up like they did in 2012. And we don't have to ask - as we control the ultimate future of the team. No fan interest = no Orioles. If the Orioles try to pull an offseason of "competitive baseball" as the goal again, I highly doubt fans are going to embrace that anytime soon. And if they do - then it's on them for not wanting more for their entertainment $.

Would you have felt better if they would change their wording to championship baseball? Isn't it really semantics? Now that you accept that this team has to live on a budget and Angelos will "only allow a certain level of spending" what would qualify as shooting for "championship baseball". Frankly I think you are getting upset over nothing. They are doing what they think will get us in the position to make the playoffs. That is all you can do really. Get to the playoffs and see what happens. Question the decisions made that is fair, but to get hung up on competitve vs championship seems like wasted angst.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Just noting that in an interview shown during last night's game, Buck referred to the idea of adding pitching for next year through trades/free agency as 'robbing Peter to pay Paul' and said what they really need to do is develop the talent they already have.

[Redskins Rick]

Our fans were demanding and highly critical ten fifteen years ago. And it didn't do any good. Go back and read all the Angelos

hate. The only thing that has changed is that we have better players now.

What changed, we now have good baseball people in the GM Spot, and hired a real manager.

[weams]

Not only will the team "try to pull an offseason of 'competitive baseball'" this year, but they will do that every year, as that is the goal of a team in the Orioles' position. They're trying to be like the Rays - in contention most years, around 90 wins more often than not. That's not pulling anything. That's reality. If you can't accept that, then you need to move on to another team.

They had said for years that their model is the Rays. And fortunately, they now have some of the brain power in the organization to achieve some of that.

[OFFNY]

Frankly, I think you are getting upset over nothing.

I don't think that he is upset at all.

On the contrary, I think that he (on some level) gets a lot of pleasure when he gets people worked up over his assertions.

Which is why I agree with another poster that because of the fact that he is intentionally obstinate, he is not a nice guy.

[Dipper9]

Just noting that in an interview shown during last night's game, Buck referred to the idea of adding pitching for next year through trades/free agency as 'robbing Peter to pay Paul' and said what they really need to do is develop the talent they already have.

I caught that, and my first thought was, "Trea is gonna LOVE this soundbite!"

How sick am I?

[Nigel Tufnel]

I caught that, and my first thought was, "Trea is gonna LOVE this soundbite!"

How sick am I?

Very sick, because that was my first thought, too!