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Andy MacPhail is no different.....

Peace21

By Peace21
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SrMeowMeow Hangout Grand Counsel

SrMeowMeow

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[Andy MacPhail is no different...] Than the ones that came before him, that tried to piece this club together under Peter Angelos' watch. Andy MacPhail's first offseason so far with the Baltimore Orioles has been very entertaining to say the least. And its mostly entertainment thats met with yawns. Besides the Tejada deal, nothing that Andy MacPhail has accomplished this offseason leads me to believe that this team and organization is back on track to winning baseball. Yeah Rome wasnt built in a day, but we have seen this act before. Beattie, Flanagan, Duguette, Flanagan again with Dug, and now Andy MacPhail.

I dont think Mr. MacPhail realized what kind of job he was getting himself into when he accepted the job of President of Baseball Operations back in June. Its a tough pill to swallow. Working with a man like Peter Angelos has to be a handful. Hearing horror stories from people around the league and people who came before him, about how Peter meddles and holds things up has to make you wonder what am I getting myself into? Also it may fuel some people, people like MacPhail whose well respected by Peter, to come in here and take on the challenge of working with Peter Angelos as your boss, and show the public that you have full autonomy. I think Andy MacPhail has full autonomy so far. But im beginning to wonder if Andy MacPhail has full autonomy with himself? If the man can pull the trigger, without thinking twice about it.

Its got to be tough to gamble on how you go about dealing your Ace left handed starter (who wont resign here) and trade your all star second baseman (who likely wont resign here in 09 when he is a free agent). Heck the guy just got the job in June, he hasnt had a full season with these players yet and he is forced to gamble on trying to trade them. But it has to be done.

Andy needs to restart this franchise. He needs to rebuild and start over with youth. And Im starting to wonder if AM is capable of making a move that will be looked at negatively by the average baseball fan in town, and positively by the true baseball fan in town. He needs to do whats best for the team, and not whats best for Peter or the average baseball fan. He has one week left in my mind to make this work. And if the week ends without any moves of Bedard or Roberts, than Andy MacPhail will just be like the rest. Handcuffed by Peter and by his own self. No matter what happens afterwards.

This whole rant just seems really alarmist and irresponsible (and contradictory) in light of this, most recent, post:

Im sorry if I have confused some here, into thinking that Im not pro MacPhail or that I dont think we are still in plan A. All im doing here is saying I hope Andy does the right thing by trading these players so the team can rebuild and startover. And Im hoping he gets this done soon. Im like the rest of you all, I want things to change. I may be considered an insider, but im still a true orioles fan at heart. Hell im wearing an Orioles shirt right now, hoping it brings good luck. Like i said in the the favorite trade and signings thread, I havent been this excited about a deal like the Bedard and Roberts trades since Vlad and Miggy.

I just feel like I just slogged through (most) of 17 pages of confused and worried people because you needed to vent. I don't mean to call you out because I know that we all need to get things off our chests sometimes but I feel you should have known what this would start...

I don't even know what my point is, I just feel a little irritated and I wanted to express that.

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Fairfax Bird Major Leaguer Rising Star

Fairfax Bird

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I am sorry Peace took so long for his vision to clear up. It is all the more disappointing that so many people have this guy confused with John Schuerholtz.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to be confused with Schuerholtz either if I were MacPhail. MacPhail has more rings. Seriously funny how many have given up hope. Actually, pretty sad.

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Peace21 Veteran All-Star

Peace21

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This whole rant just seems really alarmist and irresponsible (and contradictory) in light of this, most recent, post:

I just feel like I just slogged through (most) of 17 pages of confused and worried people because you needed to vent. I don't mean to call you out because I know that we all need to get things off our chests sometimes but I feel you should have known what this would start...

I don't even know what my point is, I just feel a little irritated and I wanted to express that.

Im irritated as well.

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B-more AAA

B-more

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If you look at the coverage of Wieters signing on FoxSports and ESPN.com you see that MacPhail stepped into a done deal and almost undid it. If it were not for Wieters dad stepping in at the 11th hour the clock would have run out.

MacPhail is the commissioner's boy. No way on God's green earth he goes against his bud Bud's immortal slotting. Wieters dad called Angelos and the deal was finished.

MacPhail took over a team that was primed and ready in Minnesota and he rode that pre-fab team to fame and glory. All of the pieces were there before he arrived for the 1st WS. He got all kinds of credit for signing Morris after the 2nd WS - but our beloved AM was going to pass on Morris when the owner stepped in and got him signed.

People keep pointing to Minnesota as this guys crowning achievement, but what did he do? Puckett, Gaetti, Hrbek, Gagne, Viola, etc. – they were already there when MacPhail arrived. After 1992, when these pre-fab stars began to fade, what happened to Minnesota? MacPhail did not make a trade or have a draft of consequence. It was not until about 7 years later - after all of the bilge water MacPhail brought in was finally washed out - that Minnesota was able to compete again.

I am sorry Peace took so long for his vision to clear up. It is all the more disappointing that so many people have this guy confused with John Schuerholtz.

Selig's immortal slotting? We crushed Selig's immortal slotting with what we paid to Weiters. Weiters got the 2nd highest bonus out of non-major league contracts for drafted players ever. I dont know how that falls in line with slotting that is not the #1 pick.

I just cant believe that AM was that against giving him close to what he ended up signing for. Even if it was lower, the slot amount I believe is millions below $6million.

I also doubt that simply calling Angelos got it done. Bigbird's source seemed to be 'in' with Duquette and he said he believed Duq had pretty agreed to $ figures for Wieters with Boras before the draft. I believe BB then said he believed that Angelos did not like this and that is part of the reason he ended up bringing AM in so surprisingly fast.

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StunninSteve Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

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Selig's immortal slotting? We crushed Selig's immortal slotting with what we paid to Weiters. Weiters got the 2nd highest bonus out of non-major league contracts for drafted players ever. I dont know how that falls in line with slotting that is not the #1 pick.

I just cant believe that AM was that against giving him close to what he ended up signing for. Even if it was lower, the slot amount I believe is millions below $6million.

Boras was asking for 11-12 mil for a couple weeks too, just be happy that we got him for 6 mil and not at all...

Actually, if I remember correctly, I think that McPhail was offering 5 and at the last minute Angelos came in and offered an additional mil. See he's not so bad. :D

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B-more AAA

B-more

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Boras was asking for 11-12 mil for a couple weeks too, just be happy that we got him for 6 mil and not at all...

Actually, if I remember correctly, I think that McPhail was offering 5 and at the last minute Angelos came in and offered an additional mil. See he's not so bad. :D

I think that is more likely and if that is true, then I dont see how IamSparticus can characterize AM for bowing to the slotting when 5 million is still way above slot for that pick. That is still generally above slot for the #1 pick.

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StunninSteve Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

StunninSteve

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I also doubt that simply calling Angelos got it done. Bigbird's source seemed to be 'in' with Duquette and he said he believed Duq had pretty agreed to $ figures for Wieters with Boras before the draft. I believe BB then said he believed that Angelos did not like this and that is part of the reason he ended up bringing AM in so surprisingly fast.

Well "Duq", IMO, was a horrible VP and shouldn't have been hired in the first place. If he did have an agreement with Boras ahead of time that means that we would have paid in the neighborhood of 11 mil for him and instead Angelos hired someone who actually knows what he's doing and got him signed for 6 mil.

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Fairfax Bird Major Leaguer Rising Star

Fairfax Bird

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If you look at the coverage of Wieters signing on FoxSports and ESPN.com you see that MacPhail stepped into a done deal and almost undid it. If it were not for Wieters dad stepping in at the 11th hour the clock would have run out.

MacPhail is the commissioner's boy. No way on God's green earth he goes against his bud Bud's immortal slotting. Wieters dad called Angelos and the deal was finished.

MacPhail took over a team that was primed and ready in Minnesota and he rode that pre-fab team to fame and glory. All of the pieces were there before he arrived for the 1st WS. He got all kinds of credit for signing Morris after the 2nd WS - but our beloved AM was going to pass on Morris when the owner stepped in and got him signed.

People keep pointing to Minnesota as this guys crowning achievement, but what did he do? Puckett, Gaetti, Hrbek, Gagne, Viola, etc. – they were already there when MacPhail arrived. After 1992, when these pre-fab stars began to fade, what happened to Minnesota? MacPhail did not make a trade or have a draft of consequence. It was not until about 7 years later - after all of the bilge water MacPhail brought in was finally washed out - that Minnesota was able to compete again.

I am sorry Peace took so long for his vision to clear up. It is all the more disappointing that so many people have this guy confused with John Schuerholtz.

I love it. MacPhail gets no credit for winning two rings. He gets all the blame for Minnesota falling on its face. MacPhail gets no credit for signing Wieters, that goes to other people also. Who gets credit for trading Traschel and Tejada? Piss poor.

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StunninSteve Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

StunninSteve

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I think that is more likely and if that is true, then I dont see how IamSparticus can characterize AM for bowing to the slotting when 5 million is still way above slot for that pick. That is still generally above slot for the #1 pick.

Actually the funny thing is, it was the exact opposite. Boras demanded 11-12 mil for the longest time and at the last minute they decided to bow to what we offered because AM wasn't budging.

It was either Wieters got 6 mil which is still the largest up front bonus in draft history, or he could have went back to school and go to the following year's draft as a senior and live with whatever he's offered. Otherwise, he would have to go to an Indy league for a year and try again.

He made the right choice...

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Fairfax Bird Major Leaguer Rising Star

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Actually the funny thing is, it was the exact opposite. Boras demanded 11-12 mil for the longest time and at the last minute they decided to bow to what we offered because AM wasn't budging.

It was either Wieters got 6 mil which is still the largest up front bonus in draft history, or he could have went back to school and go to the following year's draft as a senior and live with whatever he's offered. Otherwise, he would have to go to an Indy league for a year and try again.

He made the right choice...

This is completely wrong. Everything that MacPhail does is wrong. He could not have had anything to do with anything good.

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Boca Bird

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It may be done already. Or something may be done already.

Of all the days when there would be a moratorium on announcing other business, this is the one, with both Selig and Fehr appearing before Congress. This was a day when MLB wanted to stay right on message, with no distractions.

People speculated that last week that Selig would not want to distract from the Gossage press conference. That was nothing compared to this.

MacPhail and Bavasi may very well be sitting on an agreement. I have no reason to believe that they are, but I would have been absolutely shocked if something had been announced today

You're still optimstic on a deal despite the fact that Jones has resumed playing ball?

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Moose Milligan Hangout Grand Counsel

Moose Milligan

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Of course they will need Bedard but other stuff becomes priority...Why do you think you rarely, if ever, see big trades in ST? It just doesn't happen...Doesn't mean it shouldn't...But hell, teams should also trade for guys in May and June and not wait until July 31 but they do that too.

I think you have about 15 days at the most and really, it wouldn't shock me if you hear that they are done shopping Bedard and BRob by the time this weekend.

What have many of you been saying all offseason? "MacPhail can't do other moves without knowing what he is going to get for Bedard and BRob"...So, if that is the case, at what point do we start to move on to do other things to fill in some holes.

You can't have it both ways.

Sorry for the late reply, had to run.

I'm not saying they'll get dealt in ST, I'm not saying they'll get dealt by opening day, either.

All I'm saying is if MacPhail waits until July 31st, what's the big deal? Where's the fire?

Like I said, it's been a decade of sucktitude already, roughly 3,650 days of bad baseball, bad drafts, bad trades, and bad free agent signings...If you and others truly believe that the rebuilding process doesn't truly start until we trade Bedard and Roberts, what's another 180 days? We've got nothing but time.

The factor that you hate to talk about is the unknown, because you like to come off as always, always, always so sure of yourself and right 100% of the time that the unknown bothers you because it's a time where you can't be right all the time.

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