Don't Look Now but Joseph Might be a Better a Catcher for the Orioles...

[webbrick2010]

Many of us predicted that this day would come

Wieters doesn't hit enough to be a full time 1B or DH.

His defensive skills (which were mainly based on his arm) would erode over time. The elbow injury (TJ surgery) just sped up the erosion of his defensive value.

Now he is a player that will earn more thru arbitration than he is worth, but everyone knows that so good luck getting much in a trade.

Caleb Joseph is probably never going to be as good an overall catcher (hitting + fielding) as Matt Wieters was but I think looking 2-3 years down the road Wieters will just be a part time catcher/1B/DH making more money than he is worth (not with the O's)

With the O's budget he is gone before 2016.

[MurphDogg]

Wieters doesn't hit enough to be a full time 1B or DH.

This is absolutely false. He obviously doesn't nearly the amount of upside as a first baseman or DH but his bat would absolutely play there. Chris Davis is currently on pace for a 2 rWAR season at first base while hitting .198/.307/.398. Wieters career numbers are .257/.320/.423. I would expect his offensive numbers to increase a little bit if he wasn't catching 135 games a year, but even if they didn't, his bat would play at first or DH.

[Redskins Rick]

This is absolutely false. He obviously doesn't nearly the amount of upside as a first baseman or DH but his bat would absolutely play there. Chris Davis is currently on pace for a 2 rWAR season at first base while hitting .198/.307/.398. Wieters career numbers are .257/.320/.423. I would expect his offensive numbers to increase a little bit if he wasn't catching 135 games a year, but even if they didn't, his bat would play at first or DH.

Dude, can't argue facts with some people.

Some people will hate on Matt, regardless of how well he does here.

[MurphDogg]

Clevenger is not good enough defensively to catch at the major league level. IMO.

Neither was Joseph

[Crabby9]

Neither was Joseph

Yep, that's all I ever read about Joseph and now it's revealed he's doing a great job with our pitchers. Let's wait and see.

[mdbdotcom]

Joseph's ascendance really raises questions about how minor leaguers are evaluated throughout baseball. He spent 6+ years in the minors and didn't get a shot until Wieters went down. Could there be other nuggets down there who aren't getting the opportunity to prove it?

[Redskins Rick]

Neither was Joseph

He wasn't?

He has clearly shown that he can, since he has been here.

Clevenger is in AAA, because he can't.

[Palmoripken]

Joseph's ascendance really raises questions about how minor leaguers are evaluated throughout baseball. He spent 6+ years in the minors and didn't get a shot until Wieters went down. Could there be other nuggets down there who aren't getting the opportunity to prove it?

Gives one hope about Christian Walker who has hit better then Joseph did in the MiL. Excited about Cisco down the line too though he's very young n raw.

[webbrick2010]

This is absolutely false. He obviously doesn't nearly the amount of upside as a first baseman or DH but his bat would absolutely play there. Chris Davis is currently on pace for a 2 rWAR season at first base while hitting .198/.307/.398. Wieters career numbers are .257/.320/.423. I would expect his offensive numbers to increase a little bit if he wasn't catching 135 games a year, but even if they didn't, his bat would play at first or DH.

Your using CD's worst stretch ever to make a case for Wieters being a 1B/DH?

A .707 OPS would be 18th out of 22 1B (just ahead of CD in his worst year ever)

It would be .002 above Billy Butler who has the worst OPS of any DH

so I'm sorry no one is going to pay Matt Wieters 10+ million dollars to be a 1B/DH

He will eventually continue his career as a part time C/1B/DH for some team that can afford an expensive platoon type guy (Yankees)

[Redskins Rick]

Your using CD's worst stretch ever to make a case for Wieters being a 1B/DH?

A .707 OPS would be 18th out of 22 1B (just ahead of CD in his worst year ever)

It would be .002 above Billy Butler who has the worst OPS of any DH

so I'm sorry no one is going to pay Matt Wieters 10+ million dollars to be a 1B/DH

He will eventually continue his career as a part time C/1B/DH for some team that can afford an expensive platoon type guy (Yankees)

As usual, you cherry pick your stats, but, why should I be surprised.

Matt had a down year last year with the bat, grant but his career OPS is not .707.

Matt had an OPS of .839 this season and I will not begin to claim, he would sustain that all year.

I suggest playing Matt next season, and see how he does, before you make long term decisions.

[CA-ORIOLE]

This is absolutely false. He obviously doesn't nearly the amount of upside as a first baseman or DH but his bat would absolutely play there. Chris Davis is currently on pace for a 2 rWAR season at first base while hitting .198/.307/.398. Wieters career numbers are .257/.320/.423. I would expect his offensive numbers to increase a little bit if he wasn't catching 135 games a year, but even if they didn't, his bat would play at first or DH.

Ehh, gonna have to disagree again Murphdogg. Wieters sole value is pretty much vested in the catching position. He has a career 98 wRC+. He'd likely struggle to be a replacement level 1B/DH. Using Davis' poor season and rWAR is creative but doesn't really pass muster. A good chunk of that is vested in his defensive value which is quite good by DRS. I'm sure you don't want to get into Wieters likely defensive value at first base. Not only that, Wieters would likely give up a half a win just on the base paths alone in full time play. Davis has given up approximately 5 runs on the basepaths over his career.

If your argument is that Wieters is going be a much better hitter without the burdens of catching then fine ... I don't buy it though. Keeping Wieters around to play 1B/DH would be a horrible/indefensible position by any GM imo. About the only way to defend it would be a near minimum salary and some flexibilty to work as a third string catcher. Even then, I would probably hate it.

[Redskins Rick]

Ehh, gonna have to disagree again Murphdogg. Wieters sole value is pretty much vested in the catching position. He has a career 98 wRC+. He'd likely struggle to be a replacement level 1B/DH. Using Davis' poor season and rWAR is creative but a good chunk of that is vested in his defensive value which is quite good by DRS. I'm sure you don't want to get into Wieters likely defensive value at first base.

Not only that, Wieters would likely give up a half a win just on the base paths alone in full time play. Davis has given up approximately 5 runs on the basepaths over his career.

If your argument is that Wieters is going be a much better hitter without the burdens of catching then fine ... I don't buy it though. Keeping Wieters around to play 1B/DH would be a horrible/indefensible position by any GM imo. About the only way to defend it would be a near minimum salary and some flexibilty to work as a third string catcher. Even then, I would probably hate it.

How is DH working this year, when Cruz is slumping?

All I am saying, at least for the first part of next season, bring Matt along slowly and let him DH some games, if his bat comes anywhere close to .839 and what he was doing this year, we can all jump up and down and cheer him on.

[CA-ORIOLE]

How is DH working this year, when Cruz is slumping?

All I am saying, at least for the first part of next season, bring Matt along slowly and let him DH some games, if his bat comes anywhere close to .839 and what he was doing this year, we can all jump up and down and cheer him on.

I'm pretty much banking on Wieter's to catch next year. If not for us, then someone else if we trade him. That's where his value is. If he has found himself this year with his offense, then great, we'll take that as it comes. I have no issue with him selectively DH'ing (maybe against LHP)or other favorable matchups. What I do not want is to be in a position where we are relying on Wieters to be a primary DH (and certainly not a first baseman) or filling a bench spot in those areas. He needs to be a catcher.

[Redskins Rick]

I'm pretty much banking on Wieter's to catch next year. If not for us, then someone else if we trade him. That's where his value is. If he has found himself this year with his offense, then great, we'll take that as it comes. I have no issue with him selectively DH'ing (maybe against LHP)or other favorable matchups. What I do not want is to be in a position where we are relying on Wieters to be a primary DH (and certainly not a first baseman) or filling a bench spot in those areas. He needs to be a catcher.

Orioles DH for 2013 batting .234 and an OPS .704 and probably most of that was August and September.

Are you saying Matt won't be better than this?

Matt wont have much trade value, they know he will be a FA and he is coming off an injury and a risk for another team to try and pick up.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Orioles DH for 2013 batting .234 and an OPS .704 and probably most of that was August and September.

Are you saying Matt won't be better than this?

Why would we want to strive to just beat the below replacement production at DH for 2013?

Matt wont have much trade value, they know he will be a FA and he is coming off an injury and a risk for another team to try and pick up.

If he can't catch, then keep on the DL until he can. Even it it's mid season.