Roberts Must Go

[clapdiddy]

Would Cedeno, Gallagher and Marmol be out of the question? If we have to pick one pitcher btwn the 2, who do you value more?

I would love that deal, but I doubt that Marmol is available.

[rhall]

Roberts is essentially just a left-handed hitter, because he hits lefties so poorly.

He did only hit .268 against lefties compared to .299 against righties (.290 overall), but his OBP was higher against lefties; .386 to .373. So his average and SLG go down pretty good, but still he keeps a very high OBP against lefties, and isn't that what you want out of your leadoff hitter. If he's going to sacrifice anything when hitting from his weaker side, it's power. His job is to get on base and score runs.

splits

[FatRalph]

Looking at all the teams in MLB there are only an few that really would need a BROB unless a major injury by mid season. (playoff contenders).

Cleveland, Cubs, Rockies, Dodgers, (maybe Cardinals.weak NL Central). In 2009 there are many 2b free agents that teams could pick up relatively cheap.

They could also flip some of these 3B and SS to play 2b.

Second Basemen

Jamey Carroll * CLE

Ray Durham SF

Mark Ellis OAK

Marcus Giles COL

Mark Grudzielanek KC

Orlando Hudson ARZ

Jeff Kent LAD

Felipe Lopez WAS

D’Angelo Jimenez STL

Pablo Ozuna * CWS

Nick Punto MIN

Jose Valentin NYM

Jose Vidro * SEA

Shortstops

Orlando Cabrera CWS

Alex Cintron CWS

Alex Cora BOS

Craig Counsell * MIL

Adam Everett MIN

Rafael Furcal LAD

Cristian Guzman WAS

Cesar Izturis STL

Ramon Martinez LAD

Edgar Renteria * DET

Juan Uribe CWS

Third Basemen

Hank Blalock * TEX

Joe Crede CWS

Morgan Ensberg NYY

Chipper Jones * ATL

Corey Koskie MIL

Greg Norton TB

Scott Spiezio * STL

* - player whose contract includes 2009 option

My opinion (though many will disagree with)this is the time to trade BROB. Cedeno Gallagher Epatt Marquis and Murton for Roberts and Payton. Plus I am a Cubs Fan so I want this to happen

[rhall]

I would love that deal, but I doubt that Marmol is available.

What if we gave them Sherrill? I think this has been discussed before, but they have power right handed arms, and Sherrill would give them power from both arms.

Marmol, Cedeno, Gallagher & low prospect

for

Sherrill and Roberts

[sorrycharlie]

My opinion (though many will disagree with)this is the time to trade BROB. Cedeno Gallagher Epatt Marquis and Murton for Roberts and Payton. Plus I am a Cubs Fan so I want this to happen

I would take that trade in one second.

[davearm]

I like splitting lefties in the lineup, too, but you don't have to worry about that with Roberts, because he is a SWITCH HITTER.

There would be no problem with Roberts, Fukudome in the 1 & 2 spots.

Of course there's a problem with that. The next four hitters are then RH.

S

L

R

R

R

R

... is not splitting up the righties very well, now is it?

The best way to achieve L/R balance in the Cubs' lineup is to have Roberts hit 2nd, and Fukudome hit 5th. Plus it affords the ability to keep Soriano at his strongly preferred leadoff spot.

[davearm]

Hendry wants Roberts pretty bad or he would have squashed the deal for him a long time ago. Regardless of what the Cubs fans think this much is true. While I agree that it makes little or no sense for the Cubs to give up Hill or Pie in this deal. I think Murton , Gallagher & A/AA prospect for Roberts would be fair. Assuming they can send Payton & Gibbons or DFA Gibbons I think this would be a good move. Cedeno might be pretty good he might not. If he can be obtained for one of the O's veterans or low level prospect maybe we take the chance. Patterson is not a good move IMO. If he ends up not being able to fix his defensive issues you end up with a light hitting DH (Lead off hitter type).

The O's need to be looking for diamonds in the rough, and taking some chances on them.

Cedeno and Patterson are just that.

[Number5]

The O's need to be looking for diamonds in the rough, and taking some chances on them.

Cedeno and Patterson are just that.

For guys like Cedeno or Patterson to be part of a package makes sense, but there has to be a headliner to such a trade. Cedeno, Gallagher & Marshall, or other similar rumored offers from the Cubs just do not accomplish much in the way of rebuilding the Orioles, plus a trade like that would create even more 40-man problems. When I said that the Cubs were offering next to nothing, I didn't mean that the players had zero value, I meant that they just don't accomplish much for the Orioles in their rebuild. Trading Roberts just to trade him would be a mistake IMO. We need to have a plan in mind.

[Rolotomassie]

Of course there's a problem with that. The next four hitters are then RH.

S

L

R

R

R

R

... is not splitting up the righties very well, now is it?

The best way to achieve L/R balance in the Cubs' lineup is to have Roberts hit 2nd, and Fukudome hit 5th. Plus it affords the ability to keep Soriano at his strongly preferred leadoff spot.

Uh no. L/R balance is somewhat important, especially in the NL, but Roberts is a leadoff hitter. He's a better leadoff hitter by a wide margin than anyone on the Cubs' roster, and is one of the best leadoff hitters in baseball. Leadoff hitters leadoff, they don't bat second. No manager in his right mind, NL or not, would bat Roberts second behind some other guy who happens to be right handed.

Another thing: Roberts' numbers vs. lefties suffered last year because he was still hurting significantly at the beginning of the year. He could barely swing the bat right handed. Look up his performance vs. lefties by month. You'll see significant improvement over the season. Also, look at his splits from earlier years. There are power differences, but until last year he had always been a solid hitter against lefties. Also, he may be a better base stealer against lefties than righties.

In fact, that's one reason that I suspect Roberts is primed for a breakout (I mean contending for a batting title) season. And that same logic is why I think it's a mistake to trade him for any package that doesn't include a real difference maker - his value may increase between now and the deadline, or even next offseason. The Cubs aren't offering a difference maker. Which is why I don't think a trade will go down.

Frankly I wish the multitude of very biased Cubs fans here would get thee home to their own boards and leave this board to us very biased Os fans. Usually I like hearing other fans' perspectives, but frankly the same old Cubs fans around here for months spitting the same message over and over about how they really don't need Roberts (then why are you here talking up EPat?) and how Pie is amazing is getting old. I'd love to hear from some Tribe fans or Dodger fans or whoever else.

I just don't think the Cubs are a good trading match, and considering how little Cubs fans seem to regard Roberts and how highly they regard Pie and EPat, I don't think they believe there is a good match either.

[blueberryale77]

The O's need to be looking for diamonds in the rough, and taking some chances on them.

Cedeno and Patterson are just that.

You look for diamonds in the rough by signing MiL free agents, trading the likes of Kevin Millar, Jay Payton or maybe Ramon Hernandez for them, or getting them as throw-ins in a larger package, not by trading one of your best players for a package full of them.

[blueberryale77]

Looking at all the teams in MLB there are only an few that really would need a BROB unless a major injury by mid season. (playoff contenders).

Cleveland, Cubs, Rockies, Dodgers, (maybe Cardinals.weak NL Central). In 2009 there are many 2b free agents that teams could pick up relatively cheap.

They could also flip some of these 3B and SS to play 2b.

Second Basemen

Jamey Carroll * CLE

Ray Durham SF

Mark Ellis OAK

Marcus Giles COL

Mark Grudzielanek KC

Orlando Hudson ARZ

Jeff Kent LAD

Felipe Lopez WAS

D’Angelo Jimenez STL

Pablo Ozuna * CWS

Nick Punto MIN

Jose Valentin NYM

Jose Vidro * SEA

Shortstops

Orlando Cabrera CWS

Alex Cintron CWS

Alex Cora BOS

Craig Counsell * MIL

Adam Everett MIN

Rafael Furcal LAD

Cristian Guzman WAS

Cesar Izturis STL

Ramon Martinez LAD

Edgar Renteria * DET

Juan Uribe CWS

Third Basemen

Hank Blalock * TEX

Joe Crede CWS

Morgan Ensberg NYY

Chipper Jones * ATL

Corey Koskie MIL

Greg Norton TB

Scott Spiezio * STL

* - player whose contract includes 2009 option

My opinion (though many will disagree with)this is the time to trade BROB. Cedeno Gallagher Epatt Marquis and Murton for Roberts and Payton. Plus I am a Cubs Fan so I want this to happen

You've posted this list in two threads now. Why? It has no bearing on Roberts' value. All but 3 or 4 of the SS and 2B you list are either scrubs or pushing 40 and the 3Bs are the same plus not a single one of them has anything approaching the athleticism to move to a more difficult position. Sure, all but Renteria, Furcal, and to a lesser degree Hudson and Ellis who aren't on the verge of retirement would come cheaper than Roberts, but so what? They also either suck or are almost old enough to move into an "active adult" community.

[Mackus]

You look for diamonds in the rough by signing MiL free agents, trading the likes of Kevin Millar, Jay Payton or maybe Ramon Hernandez for them, or getting them as throw-ins in a larger package, not by trading one of your best players for a package full of them.

"Package full of them"

Gallagher would be the 2nd best prospect we've gotten all offseason, behind only Jones, IMO. Murton is probably the 5th most valuable guy, behind Jones, Gallagher, Tillman, and maybe Patton.

If Gallagher and Murton are at the head of the offer, getting risky guys like Cedeno and/or Patterson at the end of the deal is gravy, and something we should definitely be in on.

[davearm]

Frankly I wish the multitude of very biased Cubs fans here would get thee home to their own boards and leave this board to us very biased Os fans. Usually I like hearing other fans' perspectives, but frankly the same old Cubs fans around here for months spitting the same message over and over about how they really don't need Roberts (then why are you here talking up EPat?) and how Pie is amazing is getting old. I'd love to hear from some Tribe fans or Dodger fans or whoever else.

I'll put my contributions to this community up against what you've added with your 46 posts anytime buddy.

If you don't like my perspective, then just put me on ignore. I couldn't care less.

But please, do everyone a favor and quit wasting bandwidth with your ridiculous ranting on who should and shouldn't be welcome to post here. It's absolutely shameful.

[cindyluvsbrady]

Brian Roberts is one of my all time favorite Orioles. He is the complete package of on and off the field value. I wish we had 3 more like him.

However, he must go. This team will lose 90 with or without him. He won't sign an extension. It is asinine to keep him around to eak out a victory or 2 or 5. I would trade him for two blue chippers, if need be- no need to for a 4 or 5 for 1.

I am afraid that PGA will see the trade of Tejada and Bedard as "enough" and hold on stubbornly to our boy.

For our sake...heck, for his sake...let's move him.

NOOO!

We need My Perfect One!:002_scry:

[Rolotomassie]

I'll put my contributions to this community up against what you've added with your 46 posts anytime buddy.

If you don't like my perspective, then just put me on ignore. I couldn't care less.

But please, do everyone a favor and quit wasting bandwidth with your ridiculous ranting on who should and shouldn't be welcome to post here. It's absolutely shameful.

Post count? Really? I guess you take the same approach to posting as you do to proposing trades - quantity trumps quality? Frankly, I've mostly just lurked here for a long time, but it's posts like yours that have motivated me to add my $.02 now.

Look, I'm not trying to disparage you. If you look back at my post you'll notice that I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to post here. I'm saying you've made your point time and time again. Is there anybody on OH who doesn't understand, at this point, that Davearm thinks Roberts is only a moderate upgrade for the Cubs, and that some package of Cedeno/EPat/Gallagher/etc is a fair package? Does anyone here not understand that Dave thinks Pie is untouchable, won't be traded for Roberts, and shouldn't be traded for Roberts?

In short, I'm all for other fans' perspectives, and I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to post. I just wish you would come up with something new to post.