Duquette - "We'll be active on the trade front." (Buyers)

[Crazysilver03]

Sure, that was the team's justification of the trade. The data doesn't lie. JA has been a very good starter. Strop a good late inning reliever. Feldman was fine for a couple months. Bad trade.

If you refuse to use the data, I don't know how you evaluate any trade.

Sure they have been fantastic since they left. But both were on their way out of Baltimore. And didn't have much value at the time of the trade. And ignoring that doesn't give the best evaluation of the trade either.

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[El Gordo]

It was a horrific move. It is the GM's job to assemble staff in place to get the best from our players. If we have players that need a change of scenery to get better --- that's a big problem. Every trade that is evaluated -- Orioles and others -- examine the stats for the players involved post trade. That's the way it goes and the data speaks for itself.

You are living in a dream world. The reality is DD was coming into a situation where the MiL player development was a total mess from years of PA cronyism. He still hasn't been able to completely clean it up, though he has made good strides IMO. Arrieta was never going to benefit from our system in the short term. The trade was s good one.

[Just Regular]

I know he's out a few weeks now with a hand injury, but I wonder if Jomar Reyes has done enough in full season to anchor a substantial deal. I know in the Sally Rafael Devers of the Red Sox is the newest budding slugger and rocketing up midseason industry lists, but Reyes is four months younger, slugging almost as impressively with a better walk rate, and I've read good accounts of his approach.

I've seen Devers suggested in Hamels packages, I wonder if Reyes could fill the high upside slot with some of our lower ceiling higherups.

[Rojo13]

We have so many free agents this offseason, we have no idea what kind of team Schoop will be playing on in the future. The Orioles are built to win this season. They can will it all with Sale. Without an ace like him, I think we'll fall short, like we did against the Royals last year. If we'd had someone like Sale last season, the Orioles probably would have won Game 1 of the ALDS and the entire series might have played out differently. The Orioles are missing a dominant ace who can carry them in the playoffs and take the ball 2 or 3 times in a 7-game series and be lights out more often than not. As is, we have a bunch of #3 starters and Ubaldo Jimenez, who can pitch like an ace for long stretches but also struggle with his mechanics and lose his command at any time. And his struggles can last for months at a time - sometimes longer, like we saw up close last year. Ubaldo was both terrific for half a season and awful for half a season within the same year in 2013. I don't trust him to be pitching the way he is now in October.

Schoop is the ideal centerpiece to get Sale. We don't have anyone else of value outside of Machado who would realistically get a deal done. Sale is signed through 2017 with completely reasonable team options in 2018 and 2019. He's an extremely valuable and known commodity with a good contract. Schoop is a talented young player with an unknown ceiling due to his plate discipline issues, and he's coming back from a serious injury which he could potentially aggravate. I'd try to come up with a package built around Schoop and Bundy+ to get Sale and not look back. And I think highly of Schoop and his ceiling.

The playoffs are a crapshoot. Yes we could win this year, and we need a big ace but even if we got one of those, you can't predict it. Compare our rotation even with an ace to say the Nats. Now that doens't mean the Nats would win - we swept Detroit last year - but it's just not worth it.

I wouldn't trade Schoop under any circumstance.

I just think in general trades are done to placate fans and try to make GMs look good.

Think of it this way. Which would you rather have? Eduardo Rodriguez for the next 5+ year as as an anchor in the rotation or Andy Miller for 3 months last year? We didn't even need Miller to win the division by so much last year.

Stop selling the doomsday crap for next year.

[weams]

Sure they have been fantastic since they left. But both were on their way out of Baltimore. And didn't have much value at the time of the trade. And ignoring that doesn't give the best evaluation of the trade either.

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They each had little to no value when they were traded because of their poor performance or declining status. Strop was Delmon Young. Jake was Bud.

[birrman54]

They each had little to no value when they were traded because of their poor performance or declining status. Strop was Delmon Young. Jake was Bud.

Strop certainly, but Jake had an option and was controllable for several more years. There were also plenty of peripherals to suggest he was worth holding onto.

I still don't understand what they thought they were getting with Scott Feldman and why they considered that a playoff worthy move.

The Orioles are really enamored with making too-small moves that aren't actually cheap but aren't difference makers. E.g De aza , Feldman, Norris, Krod

[Crazysilver03]

Strop certainly, but Jake had an option and was controllable for several more years. There were also plenty of peripherals to suggest he was worth holding onto.

I still don't understand what they thought they were getting with Scott Feldman and why they considered that a playoff worthy move.

The Orioles are really enamored with making too-small moves that aren't actually cheap but aren't difference makers. E.g De aza , Feldman, Norris, Krod

I don't really understand this last paragraph at all. "Too many small moves?" You cite basically one move per year. And that's too many? And how are they not cheap? Sure, they weren't difference makers but they weren't giving up difference making talent either. The team needs average production and role players to compete.

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[weams]

Strop certainly, but Jake had an option and was controllable for several more years. There were also plenty of peripherals to suggest he was worth holding onto.

I still don't understand what they thought they were getting with Scott Feldman and why they considered that a playoff worthy move.

The Orioles are really enamored with making too-small moves that aren't actually cheap but aren't difference makers. E.g De aza , Feldman, Norris, Krod

Sorry. Jake was done in Baltimore. And everyone knew it.

[weams]

The Orioles are really enamored with making too-small moves that aren't actually cheap but aren't difference makers. E.g De aza , Feldman, Norris, Krod

SO the only moves that are not worth making are the ones that do not work out? That sound like cherry picking to me. What about the small move of Koji for Davis and Hunter. Or the small move of O'Day. Or the small move of Andrew Miller?

[SeaBird]

Yeah our farm system is a baron wasteland. We aren't trading for any big pieces obviously.

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Where Barons go to waste away.

[weams]

Where Barons go to waste away.

[DrungoHazewood]

Strop certainly, but Jake had an option and was controllable for several more years. There were also plenty of peripherals to suggest he was worth holding onto.

I still don't understand what they thought they were getting with Scott Feldman and why they considered that a playoff worthy move.

The Orioles are really enamored with making too-small moves that aren't actually cheap but aren't difference makers. E.g De aza , Feldman, Norris, Krod

De Aza OPS'd .807 down the stretch on a team hurting from injuries and suspensions and was actually playing Kelly Johnson, just-waived Jimmy Paredes, and Ryan Flaherty in playoff games. Norris gave the O's 165 innings and 28 starts of a 3.65, helping make the starting staff a major strength of last year's team. Feldman was an actual live, warm body with a decent performance record in exchange for an unpitchable mopup reliever in Strop, and Arrieta who had seen his ERA rather remarkably get worse by about a run a year for four consecutive years. Jake's 2013 in Baltimore saw 6.5 BB/9, and his time in Norfolk where he was supposed to be straightening himself out in a heavily tilted pitcher's environment resulted in a 4.40 ERA and 7 K/9. He was clearly outpitched on the '13 Tides by the likes of Freddy Garcia, Josh Stintson, Tsuyoshi Wada, and Steve Johnson.

[weams]

De Aza OPS'd .807 down the stretch on a team hurting from injuries and suspensions and was actually playing Kelly Johnson, just-waived Jimmy Paredes, and Ryan Flaherty in playoff games. Norris gave the O's 165 innings and 28 starts of a 3.65, helping make the starting staff a major strength of last year's team. Feldman was an actual live, warm body with a decent performance record in exchange for an unpitchable mopup reliever in Strop, and Arrieta who had seen his ERA rather remarkably get worse by about a run a year for four consecutive years. Jake's 2013 in Baltimore saw 6.5 BB/9, and his time in Norfolk where he was supposed to be straightening himself out in a heavily tilted pitcher's environment resulted in a 4.40 ERA and 7 K/9. He was clearly outpitched on the '13 Tides by the likes of Freddy Garcia, Josh Stintson, Tsuyoshi Wada, and Steve Johnson.

Jake was so completely awful. He was much worse than watching Bud Norris pitch. On a team that was just STRIVING to become successful. He was an anchor. He was worse than inserting Brian Matusz into the rotation cold.

[DrungoHazewood]

Jake was so completely awful. He was much worse than watching Bud Norris pitch. On a team that was just STRIVING to become successful. He was an anchor. He was worse than inserting Brian Matusz into the rotation cold.

I completely understand the angst in watching Arrieta pitch well with the Cubs. But he was in a freefall in Baltimore, getting worse results every year for four years. A contending team can't continue to give starts to someone with a ERA of 6 or 7. And while he had an option, his Norfolk performances were lackluster at best. Sometimes it's only in making a clean break and moving on that a person can reset, get a clear head, and fix what's wrong.

[weams]

I completely understand the angst in watching Arrieta pitch well with the Cubs. But he was in a freefall in Baltimore, getting worse results every year for four years. A contending team can't continue to give starts to someone with a ERA of 6 or 7. And while he had an option, his Norfolk performances were lackluster at best. Sometimes it's only in making a clean break and moving on that a person can reset, get a clear head, and fix what's wrong.

Miguel's success may well be a result of clearing that pathway.