anyone else not sold on Sherrill as closer?

[RShack]

I am not impressed with Sherrill as of late. He seems very hittable and gives up way too much. When the O's first got him I thought I'd want him around for a while, but if they can flip him for some prospects at the deadline I am certainly all for it.

Right. I'm sure that's exactly why AM got him: so he could "flip him for some prospects at the deadline".

Where do people get this stuff? From trading baseball cards? If not that, where?

[El Gordo]

Right. I'm sure that's exactly why AM got him: so he could "flip him for some prospects at the deadline".

Where do people get this stuff? From trading baseball cards? If not that, where?

It must be the baseball cards, actual players are so much harder to flip, they're so much heavier.

[ccbird]

I'm still trying to get a feel on Sherrill. I love his calmness and demeanor on the mound. IMO, having confidence and an attacking style on the rubber is half the battle and he certainly has that. The other half is "stuff" and that's whre I'm still leery with him. He isn't overpowering and really doesn't have an out pitch except for the slider to a lefty.

At this point, I'm cautiously optimistic because he does all the little things well and for the most part gives himself the best chance to be successful. He hides the ball well, fields his position, holds runners, throws strikes(though he has walked too many so far this year).

Like Roberts, I would move him if I got the right deal but I wouldn't be moving him just to move him. He certainly would be a valuable member of the team in the next 3-4 years even if it's not as the closer.

[Lucky Jim]

Right. I'm sure that's exactly why AM got him: so he could "flip him for some prospects at the deadline".

Where do people get this stuff? From trading baseball cards? If not that, where?

It would be silly not to explore this. WHy wouldn't we look to flip him if there's a decent haul out there.

You're way to reactionary about this.

[El Gordo]

It would be silly not to explore this. WHy wouldn't we look to flip him if there's a decent haul out there.

You're way to reactionary about this.

I don't think trading him at the deadline is the same thing as the fantasy folk mean by flipping.

[RShack]

It would be silly not to explore this. WHy wouldn't we look to flip him if there's a decent haul out there.

You're way to reactionary about this.

Beans. You can say "Why not get a great haul?" about anybody. You could say that about Nick, or Wieters (after a year), or anybody. You coulda said that about Brooks or about Babe Ruth. That has absolutely nothing to do with why things like this get said, and you know that. It's mindless fantasy drivel about birthdays and "prospects" and making McDeals. It reflects zero concept of what it takes to build either a decent team or a foundation of a winning attitude for the franchise. If anybody believes it's not mindless drivel, how about this: I'll bet anybody $100 they don't "flip him for prospects at the deadline". Anybody wanna bet?

[Sports Guy]

It would be silly not to explore this. WHy wouldn't we look to flip him if there's a decent haul out there.

You're way to reactionary about this.

According to guys like Stark, Olney and Rosenthal, Sherrill will be made available at the deadline.

It is the smart thing to do...You artificially raise his value because of the saves column and then trade him for a very good young player or 2.

It makes perfect sense.

For some though, this is a concept they just don;t understand and can't grasp.

[Moose Milligan]

According to guys like Stark, Olney and Rosenthal, Sherrill will be made available at the deadline.

It is the smart thing to do...You artificially raise his value because of the saves column and then trade him for a very good young player or 2.

It makes perfect sense.

For some though, this is a concept they just don;t understand and can't grasp.

Not trying to be disagreable, but where'd those guys say that Sherrill will be available? I'm assuming Sherrill just falls under the umbrella of all players when MacPhail has said that everyones available, right?

Sherrill makes me nervous, but I can't argue with his results right now. He does seem to get into trouble, but he gets out of it. I think we all dream of having a power closer though...and while you don't need a power closer to put fears to rest, you also wonder how long it'll be before the baserunners and hard hit balls that Sherrill allows will come back to bite him in the ass.

[Sports Guy]

Not trying to be disagreable, but where'd those guys say that Sherrill will be available? I'm assuming Sherrill just falls under the umbrella of all players when MacPhail has said that everyones available, right?

His name has been mentioned in various articles although i will acknowledge that it could be writer speculation.

That being said, this is a guy who has been a LOOGY his whole career and is not exactly young either...He is what he is right now...It is unlikely he is going to get better.

So, if you can get a guy, have him go from a valuable short reliever to a closer, up his own value and then trade him, that is a creative and smart thing.

We have the arms to replace Sherrill, so losing him will only hurt us so much, especially since Ray will be back around the same time you would be trading Sherrill.

This isn't "fantasy baseball", this is intelligent baseball...It is all about maximizing what you have, recognizing your strengths and weaknesses and doing what you need to do that best helps this team in the long run.

This is why AM dealt Bedard and Tejada...This is why he is still going to deal many other players...This is why he got rid of Gibbons.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think we all dream of having a power closer though...and while you don't need a power closer to put fears to rest, you also wonder how long it'll be before the baserunners and hard hit balls that Sherrill allows will come back to bite him in the ass.

It'll happen, but not very often. He's a pretty good reliever, and almost any pretty good reliever can convert 80% of their save chances. Most of them are 2- or 3-run leads, starting the ninth with no one on base.

Remember, you can have a 9.00 ERA and convert most chances handed to a closer today.

[bluedog]

Sure, he's got 10 saves. But the few times I've watched him he seems awfully hittable. His bloated ERA underscores this.

I'm sold on him getting 30 saves by the trade deadline and then moving him to a team that values saves over peripheral stats for one or more solid prospects.

I just hope the O's front office doesn't fall in love with the guy and decide to give him a 5 year extension or something silly.

But to answer your question - no, I'm not sold on him as the long term solution at closer for this team. I think he's a good reliever, but I don't think he's the dominant, lights out guy that you want closing for your team for a decade or more. I think THAT guy is somewhere in our minor league organization.

[Boy Howdy]

I am not impressed with Sherrill as of late. He seems very hittable and gives up way too much. When the O's first got him I thought I'd want him around for a while, but if they can flip him for some prospects at the deadline I am certainly all for it.

You and DocJJ just used the word "hittable" to describe what you don't like about Sherrill.

Let me just point out that American League hitters are hitting him at a .191 clip so far.

[RShack]

You and DocJJ just used the word "hittable" to describe what you don't like about Sherrill.

Let me just point out that American League hitters are hitting him at a .191 clip so far.

Well, except for the fact that they're not hitting him, he's very hittable ;-)

[Lucky Jim]

Beans. You can say "Why not get a great haul?" about anybody. You could say that about Nick, or Wieters (after a year), or anybody. You coulda said that about Brooks or about Babe Ruth. That has absolutely nothing to do with why things like this get said, and you know that. It's mindless fantasy drivel about birthdays and "prospects" and making McDeals. It reflects zero concept of what it takes to build either a decent team or a foundation of a winning attitude for the franchise. If anybody believes it's not mindless drivel, how about this: I'll bet anybody $100 they don't "flip him for prospects at the deadline". Anybody wanna bet?

Actually, as far as I'm concerned, it's not about these things. It's about:

1. Year-to-year variability in performance by relievers (just look at Randy Myers two years with us.)

2. The fact that the value of a closer can be driven up with easily manipulable stats.

3. The fact that the replacement for a good reliever is actually not all that difficult to find (the real key to having a good closer being bringing him in with three run leads, rather than one).

4. The fact that Sherrill isn't a great fit for Camden Yards with his FB tendencies.

So, it's not like trading Nick (who is projectable in a more persistent, consistent way) or anyone else. It's knowing when there's a bubble, knowing the risk inherent in that bubble (bursting) and taking advantage of other teams' lack of awareness of that bubble.

Feel free to reduce other people's arguments if you like, Shack. But this is the point being made by those advocating shopping Sherrill. And it's a valid one.

[Lucky Jim]

Well, except for the fact that they're not hitting him, he's very hittable ;-)

I like Sherrill. I don't think he's "hittable." I think he's "sluggable" though, if that makes any sense.