anyone else not sold on Sherrill as closer?

[Say O!]

I think we are being a little short-sighted in regard to Sherrill. Forget about his role now (closer), and think forward to what his role could be in 2 years (LOOGY).

Do the O's have anyone that could fill that role? By that time, Walker will be done. Nobody looks to be in the system currently. Sherrill is murder on lefties, and if the O's hope to be fringy contenders in 2 years time, don't you need a LOOGY for your 'pen? I'd rather keep Sherrill around for relatively cheap $, than try and gamble to get other Walker types while in all likelihood overpaying dramatically.

So, in the interim, the young fireballers will develop, Ray will come back and we'll see where the dominoes fall with the staff. But let's at least consider a future role for Sherrill (because is anyone really going to give up 2 "good" prospects for him?)

[RShack]

OK, so the point is moot when talking about the differences from park to park because of the canceling effect of the elasticity vs. flight characteristics. So what they are doing in Coors Field is basically totally unnecessary.

No, it makes a difference. Humidity is one thing, altitude is something else. At Coors, it's the altitude.

Plus, even if it was all about humidity, if they keep the balls in an indoor office until shortly before game time, then the HVAC will keep the ball from loading up on moisture, regardless of what the humidity is outside. It takes time for a ball to absorb moisture. Just flying through the air, or sitting in the umps pocket, isn't exposing the ball to whatever-the-current-humidity-is long enough. Plus, even if you kept balls outside, I'm not sure that the ambient humidity affects the properties of the ball in a way that directly counteracts how it flies through the air. While humidity can affect both things, that's different than saying that they exactly cancel out each other.

[DocJJ]

You would not get a save in this instance because you pitched yourself into a save situation.

My team is up 3-0. I pitch like crap to make it 3-2 and weasel out of a bases-loaded jam. I get a save...no?

[McNulty]

My team is up 3-0. I pitch like crap to make it 3-2 and weasel out of a bases-loaded jam. I get a save...no?

Provided you started that inning, then yes.

[Sports Guy]

I think we are being a little short-sighted in regard to Sherrill. Forget about his role now (closer), and think forward to what his role could be in 2 years (LOOGY).

Do the O's have anyone that could fill that role? By that time, Walker will be done. Nobody looks to be in the system currently. Sherrill is murder on lefties, and if the O's hope to be fringy contenders in 2 years time, don't you need a LOOGY for your 'pen? I'd rather keep Sherrill around for relatively cheap $, than try and gamble to get other Walker types while in all likelihood overpaying dramatically.

So, in the interim, the young fireballers will develop, Ray will come back and we'll see where the dominoes fall with the staff. But let's at least consider a future role for Sherrill (because is anyone really going to give up 2 "good" prospects for him?)

You don't hold onto Sherrill with the thought he can be a good LOOGY...Trading him for a good package is much more neccassary than hoping he is a very good LOOGY in a few years.

[DrungoHazewood]

You don't hold onto Sherrill with the thought he can be a good LOOGY...Trading him for a good package is much more neccassary than hoping he is a very good LOOGY in a few years.

But if you can't get a very good package for Sherrill the closer, you could say Sherrill the LOOGY is a decent consolation prize. Well, if you believed that LOOGYs were a worthwhile use of a spot on the roster.

I'd still try hard to deal him if he ends up with a bunch of saves this year.

[Tony-OH]

My team is up 3-0. I pitch like crap to make it 3-2 and weasel out of a bases-loaded jam. I get a save...no?

In this case yes, you would get the save.

[Boy Howdy]

Let me just say, that after enduring the trainwreck of a bullpen that undermined the 2007 Orioles chances to maintain respectability, it's laughable to me that anybody would be antsy about George Sherrill with the Orioles in first place largely because of him.

Out in Seattle, they're already wondering if the Bedard deal cost them a playoff spot. After all the close game the Mariners already lost to the Orioles this year, they'll be moaning about elsid's brother if they miss a Wild Card spot by a game or two.

Anybody who remembers the days of Don Stanhouse -or Gregg Olson for that matter- knows that you can close effectively and still give your fanbase a good scare now and then. Just one of the many reasons I love baseball.

And, once again, I've got to say how much I love that hat. What's Sherrill's favorite charity? I'd gladly throw a donation their way to stick one of of his platypus-bill caps in my collection.

[RShack]

Let me just say, that after enduring the trainwreck of a bullpen that undermined the 2007 Orioles chances to maintain respectability, it's laughable to me that anybody would be antsy about George Sherrill with the Orioles in first place largely because of him.

Exactly right.

Out in Seattle, they're already wondering if the Bedard deal cost them a playoff spot. After all the close game the Mariners already lost to the Orioles this year, they'll be moaning about elsid's brother if they miss a Wild Card spot by a game or two.

The M's didn't want to trade him. He wasn't a throw-in.

AM looked at the guy, including his performance and his contract, and he insisted.

He insisted because fixing the BP was one of his priorities, which he clearly told us about.

I don't think Sherrill is going anywhere, and I'm glad. (I never rooted for a "George" before.)

I know that many people enjoy trade-talk. I don't, but I think it's a fine hobby if you like that sort of thing.

However, sometimes it gets a little crazy. People were talking about trading him before he even got here.

[The Rick]

Good points... I still think if your brother were traded, his value is high enough to warrant 2 prospects. I was just stating that the Rangers did very well in the trade for Gagne and that we shouldn't downplay the value they got back for a washed up closer. Now your brother isn't washed up and his value is increasing every day.

As for the FB tendencies, most of the ones that go for long flys or HRs are when he hangs an offspeed pitch. A good indication of his success as a FB pitcher is his line drive percentage, which has gone done this year.

Also Sherrill's BABIP is only .179 show he's getting extremely lucky. Last year he was at .253, which is also on the lucky side.

Some people would think that's lucky, but others think that a pitcher has more control than originally thought over his BABIP. That is, by a pitcher making quality pitches, although still to contact, he is giving the batter far less of a chance of hitting a ball hard.

Here's an article on the subject.

Now it still can be lucky, it depends on if Sherrill has kept the ball down, made quality pitches, stuff, etc. I don't know those stats, but if I understand that article correctly I think it's time to give pitchers more credit for low BABIP's rather than color it up as luck.

[The Rick]

Exactly right.

The M's didn't want to trade him. He wasn't a throw-in.

AM looked at the guy, including his performance and his contract, and he insisted.

He insisted because fixing the BP was one of his priorities, which he clearly told us about.

I don't think Sherrill is going anywhere, and I'm glad. (I never rooted for a "George" before.)

I know that many people enjoy trade-talk. I don't, but I think it's a fine hobby if you like that sort of thing.

However, sometimes it gets a little crazy. People were talking about trading him before he even got here.

Seems like a silly idea if you ask me!

[DrungoHazewood]

Now it still can be lucky, it depends on if Sherrill has kept the ball down, made quality pitches, stuff, etc. I don't know those stats, but if I understand that article correctly I think it's time to give pitchers more credit for low BABIP's rather than color it up as luck.

Sherrill's G/F ratio this year is one of the lowest I've ever seen. So far this year he's given up six grounders, two line drives, three popups, and 24 fly balls. You'd think his LD% is going to go up quite a bit, and that his two homers in 11.2 innings is the kind of ratio you're going to get all year. If he pitches 60 innings he's going to allow about a dozen homers.

Flyball pitchers do usually end up with lower BABIPs than groundball pitchers, but they also give up a lot more homers.

[byrdz]

No, it makes a difference. Humidity is one thing, altitude is something else. At Coors, it's the altitude.

Plus, even if it was all about humidity, if they keep the balls in an indoor office until shortly before game time, then the HVAC will keep the ball from loading up on moisture, regardless of what the humidity is outside. It takes time for a ball to absorb moisture. Just flying through the air, or sitting in the umps pocket, isn't exposing the ball to whatever-the-current-humidity-is long enough. Plus, even if you kept balls outside, I'm not sure that the ambient humidity affects the properties of the ball in a way that directly counteracts how it flies through the air. While humidity can affect both things, that's different than saying that they exactly cancel out each other.

I understand the Coors Field idea now with the lower air pressure equaling lower density equaling lower drag and there is evidence to back that up obviously. But the humidity comments confuse me.

You seem to be saying that a ball won't take on moisture in a humid environment for whatever reason, not sure I buy that. At Coors the players were saying that the balls were so dry that the leather would crack. That quote from the one and only Dejean. Did they store their balls differently than the other teams before the humidor? Because a cracked ball indicates that it was affected by low ambient humidity. Maybe it's such an extreme park it should be excluded from the conversation altogether or maybe it proves the ambient humidity effects quite nicely. When looking at this same quote from Science of Baseball and speaking of parks not at high altitudes I see no reason to think there's a noticeable difference from park to park.

"The humidity, per se, has little effect on the ball's flight. Indeed, since water vapor is lighter than air, if all other factors are the same, a ball will travel slightly farther if the humidity is high. The humidity, however, effects the weight and elasticity of balls in storage. Balls stored under conditions of high humidity will gain some weight...and their elasticity will be reduced."

This seems to be a statement on ballparks in general. I can't help but think that he's saying that it really doesn't matter unless the storage of the balls is extreme, like with Coors, in their case they are compensating for something other than humidity with humidity. No one else uses humidors so we have to assume all balls are stored the same. So, I guess I just don't see how there could be a huge difference between Seattle and Baltimore related to humidity, park size I can see. Besides, the Seattle area is the most humid area in the country. If we are to believe that high-humidity-makes-balls-go-further even under those storage circumstances that you stated, Seattle would have to be the king in that category. Granted, they play in a dome on rain days but the Orioles just make up their games on a non-rain day.

[Keith SIO]

I like what Sherril does. He gets up there. Where he is on, you see him moving around quickly. He doesn't give the hitter time to think and disguises his pitches...Watch how quickly he moves.

When he isn't pitching so well, his game slows down a ton.

[Sports Guy]

Let me just say, that after enduring the trainwreck of a bullpen that undermined the 2007 Orioles chances to maintain respectability, it's laughable to me that anybody would be antsy about George Sherrill with the Orioles in first place largely because of him.

Out in Seattle, they're already wondering if the Bedard deal cost them a playoff spot. After all the close game the Mariners already lost to the Orioles this year, they'll be moaning about elsid's brother if they miss a Wild Card spot by a game or two.

Anybody who remembers the days of Don Stanhouse -or Gregg Olson for that matter- knows that you can close effectively and still give your fanbase a good scare now and then. Just one of the many reasons I love baseball.

And, once again, I've got to say how much I love that hat. What's Sherrill's favorite charity? I'd gladly throw a donation their way to stick one of of his platypus-bill caps in my collection.

It is all about projection....I am sorry but you can't logically look at some of the things about Sherrill and say that he is going to be a top closer long term with any certainty.