[Baseball America] International Reviews: Baltimore Orioles

[Enjoy Terror]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/international-reviews-baltimore-orioles-2016/#H4GmkV4VacWXL1Us.97

Summary: No surprises here, but this is a scathing review. The Orioles don't spend internationally, and the Damien Magnifico trade is evidence things aren't likely to change.

[wildcard]

8 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/international-reviews-baltimore-orioles-2016/#H4GmkV4VacWXL1Us.97

Summary: No surprises here, but this is a scathing review. The Orioles don't spend internationally, and the Damien Magnifico trade is evidence things aren't likely to change.

20% of the O's 40 man roster are Latin players.  Dan finds another way to acquire  them.

[Enjoy Terror]

15 minutes ago, wildcard said:

20% of the O's 40 man roster are Latin players.  Dan finds another way to acquire  them.

That's the least in the AL East, FWIW.

[eddie83]

The only thing about this topic that gets me is the blame game. I mean does anyone think Dan doesn't want to spend internationally?  This is on the owner. We have never spent no matter who the GM was. 

[Crazysilver03]

I think the point is valid but only to an extent and not to the point it deserves a scathing report.

 

I understand that they aren't taking advantage of an avenue but what is the success rate? The Orioles have gotten little bang for what little buck they have spent. And in general MLB has gotten little bang for the hundreds of millions of dollars spent. 

 

At least the Os get some value out of the slot or bonuses by leveraging them into real time value. 

[Enjoy Terror]

Here are the AL 40-man rosters for Int'l Free Agents, just for fun:

Sano, Kepler, Polanco, Rosario, Escobar, Santana, Santana, Mejia, Adrianza, Vargas, Vielma, Berrios, Jorge, Rosario, Romero (15)

Gomez, Choo, Mazara, Odor, Andrus, Profar, Chirinos, Darvish, Perez, Leclerc, Alvarez, Beltran, Alberto, Guzman, Mendez (15)

Santana, Lindor, Encarnacion, Ramirez, Almonte, Gomes, Perez, Martinez, Carrasco, Salazar, Mejia, Urshela, Gonalez, Frias, Colon (15)

Cabrera, Abreu, Garcia, Narvaez, Sanchez, Garcia, Quintana, Gonzalez, Ynoa, Soto, Minaya, Gonzalez, Moancada, Garcia, Lopez (15)

Castro, Torreyes, Pineda, Tanaka, Severino, Chapman, Sanchez, Gregorius, Andujar, Mateo, Cessa, Herrera, German, Ramirez, Gallegos (15)

Perez, Orlando, Escobar, Colon, Cuthbert, Herrera, Soria, Moylan, Soler, Duenez, Torres, Bonfacio, Almonte (13)

Cabrera, Martinez, Iglesias, Machado, Cuevas, Sanchez, Saupold, Alcantara, Baez, Jimenez, Rondon, Labourt (12)

Altuva, Correa, Beltran, Gurriel, Aoki, Gonzalez, Feliz, Gustav, Paulino, Centeno, Hernandez, Guduan (12)

Cano, Cruz, Martin, Ruiz, Heredia, Hernandez, Iwakuma, Miranda, Gallardo, Diaz, Segura, Viera (12)

Escobar, Pujols, Simmons, Maldonado, Perez, Marte, Ramirez, Petit, Alvarez, Campos, Paredes (11)

Bautista, Morales, Carrera, Estrada, Liriano, Osuna, Graterol, Urena, Ramirez, Gurriel (10)

Ramirez, Bogaertz, Sandoval, Leon, Vazquez, Hernandez, Rodriguez, Abad, Elias, Ysla (10)

Alonso, Cotton, Casilla, Hendriks, Montas, Alcantara, Maxwell, Nunez, Barreto, Munoz (10)

Sucre, Colome, Cedeno, Ramirez, Diaz, Ramos (DL), Adames, De Leon, Hu, Alvarado (9*)

Castillo, Kim, Schoop, Jimenez, Santander, Aquino, Ynoa, Liranzo, Castro (9)

I tried to not include anyone that was drafted i.e. Canadian players like Martin, Paxton, Pompey... and Alex Wilson is Saudi Arabian?

[Crazysilver03]

Alex Wilson's dad was a geologist for Saudi Arabian Oil Co.

[Frobby]

While I do worry about this, the organization has been having overall success with its approach to building a winning team.   I don't know how much I should really care about the fact that teams that have had less success overall are spending more money on a particular method of talent acquisition than we are.   (And yes, I know that the more successful teams also spend more internationally.    I'm just saying that I care most about overall results, not specific methods.)

[sportsfan8703]

41 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

Here are the AL 40-man rosters for Int'l Free Agents, just for fun:

Sano, Kepler, Polanco, Rosario, Escobar, Santana, Santana, Mejia, Adrianza, Vargas, Vielma, Berrios, Jorge, Rosario, Romero (15)

 

Great work.

Funny that the very first name on your list(SANO) made Angelos like this.  This is not DD's plan.  He's just at least trading these int'l slots to get something out of them.  This is how we got Chris Lee from the Astros.  

[TINSTAAPP]

1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

This is on the owner. We have never spent no matter who the GM was. 

 

[Enjoy Terror]

Here's the NL. Funny how the top teams are the Phillies, Padres, and Marlins (2 playoff appearances since 2010) and the bottom three are the Nats, Cubs, and Giants (9 playoff appearances, 4 championships).

Margot, Solarte, Aybar, Torrens, Cordoba, Sardinas, Blash, Chacin, Torres, Diaz, Bethancourt, Sanchez, Perdomo, Asuiaje, Cordero, Rondon, Guerra, Ruiz (18)

Hernandez, Herrera, Franco, Saunders, Galvis, Blanco, Altherr, Benoit, Neris, Gomez, Rodriguez, Ramos, Garcia, Alfaro, Valentin, Pinto, Garcia, Tirado (18)

Ozuna, Rojas, Suzuki, Volquez, Chen, Tazawa, Garcia, Urena, Prado, Hechevarria, Telis, Despaigne, Gonzalez, Perez, Guerrero (15)

Diaz, Molina, Peralta, Martinez, Martinez, Oh, Socolovich, Reyes, Valera, Garcia, Alvarez, Sosa, Sierra (13)

Cabrera, Cespedes, Reyes, Rivera, Flores, Lagares, Salas, Robles, Montero, Familia (SUS), Rosario, Becerra, Molina (12*)

Marte, Polanco, Cervelli, Hanson, Nova, Rivero, Nicasio, Bastardo, Kang (RES), Diaz, Osuna, Ngope, Neverauskas (12*)

Peralta, Tomas, Rodney, Delgado, De La Rosa, Brito (DL), Marte, Vargas, Leyba, Bracho, Burgos, Hernandez, Lugo (12*)

Peraza, Suarez, Alcantara, Iglesias, Peralta, Ogando, Herrera, Bonilla, Aquino, Castillo, Mella, Hernandez (12)

Villar, Santana, Arcia, Pina, Aguilar, Perez, Peralta, Feliz, Marinez, Guerra, Rivera, Lopez (12)

Inciarte, Garcia, Camargo, Bonifacio, Teheran, Colon, Garcia, Vizcaino, Ramirez, Cabrera, Rivero (12)

Grandal, Puig, Hernandez, Maeda, Ryu, Jansen, Avilan, Baez, Garcia (DL), Gutierrez, Urias (10*)

Gonzalez, Parra, Adames, Amarista, Senzatella, Estevez, Diaz, Tapia, Marquez (9)

Difo, Lobaton, Perez, Romero, Marmelejos (DL), Severino, Bautista, Read, Cordero (8*)

Contreras, Baez, Montero, Uehera, Strop, Rondon, Caratini, Pena (8)

Nunez, Hernandez, Cueto, Gomez, Calixte, Gregorio, Suarez, Moronta (8)

[POR]

23 hours ago, Crazysilver03 said:

I understand that they aren't taking advantage of an avenue but what is the success rate? The Orioles have gotten little bang for what little buck they have spent. And in general MLB has gotten little bang for the hundreds of millions of dollars spent. 

 

I don't agree with this.  Let's say a team signed twenty international free agents ten years ago and gave each a $250,000 bonus.  That would be five million plus expenses.  Let's say one becomes Jonathan Schoop and nineteen do nothing.  That five percent success rate seems really bad. However, the Orioles likely would have had to pay a free agent eight to ten million dollars a year to have a second baseman on the open market as productive as Scoop has been.  This is Schoop's fourth year as a regular and the Orioles have paid him a total of five million.  In my scenario signing the twenty international free agents with the five percent success rate would been well worth it.      

[hoosiers]

On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 11:08 AM, Frobby said:

While I do worry about this, the organization has been having overall success with its approach to building a winning team.   I don't know how much I should really care about the fact that teams that have had less success overall are spending more money on a particular method of talent acquisition than we are.   (And yes, I know that the more successful teams also spend more internationally.    I'm just saying that I care most about overall results, not specific methods.)

The overall success of the Orioles has been primarily related to Manny Machado starting his career off in HoF fashion with credit to Britton, Tillman, Jones, Hardy, Davis, Schoop, Gausman and some others (O'Day, Wieters, Chen, etc).  DD has made a couple of shrewd moves with Cruz and Trumbo as well.  Otherwise, the rest of the organizational talent is simply sub-par all around. 

The Os have pissed away draft picks to shed relievers and sign third rate SPs and have watched as 95% of the other teams in baseball spend circles around us for YEARS.  So either pretty much every other team in baseball is throwing $ down the toilet internationally or the Os are wrong. 

Unscientifically, I opened up the 2017 Baseball America Prospect Handbook and found the following:

Ariz - Four of top five prospects are international signs

Atlanta - 3 of top 7 - all three rated over 60 by BA

Balt- Reyes - 8th ranked prospect is our first international signing - rated 55

Bos - 3 of top 8 even after the winter trades

ChiCubs - 3 of top 8

ChiSox - 3 of top 8 - all three were signed by other teams.  ChiSox are poor international player.

It is truly pathetic to not participate internationally on a scale that would make the Os a middle of the road player.  So many teams have found the investment internationally to be worthwhile that they are paying 100% penalties on oversigning AND forfeiting international signings over a certain amount for two years! 

DD might be the most ignorant GM in the game if the Baseball America folks know more than he does internationally.  Otherwise, he appears to have failed to convince his owner of an appropriate international spend that 90+% of other owners understand.  And DD has pissed enough resources away on guys like Everth Cabrera ($ that could have funded an entire international class) not to mention the failure to find $ in a payroll that has gone from $110M to where we are today.

[baltfan]

The Orioles clearly have a different approach re international players.  It seems that they are the only ones consistently trading away their slots to take shots on guys that seemed to have once been good prospects only to struggle a bit. As long as the Orioles are the only ones doing that it may we'll be taking advantage of a market inefficiency.  Isn't that what everyone wants?

It's unfair to put this on ownership.  Peter spends plenty.  I am sure he gives a general budget and Dan decides how to spend.  

[hoosiers]

Well, it's either ownership or the GM.  The GM is experienced enough to know the importance of international spending.  If the owner is at all interested in his team and how a normal organization works, he would be aware that many teams have many prospects and major leaguers who were signed internationally.