The Reality about the Showalter-Duquette Era

[weams]

10 hours ago, HillbillyBird said:

If you were lucky enough to experience the magic of the original 'Oriole Way', that was no wilderness. It was a living hell. Being the old codger that I am, I've reveled in this mediocrity. September and hope make a sweet fragrance. :-)

Yeah. Too bad about this year. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, birdwatcher55 said:

Royals and Blue Jays?

You got one of the two.    Here's a hint: the other team has not been to a World Series during the five-year span.   

[Tx Oriole]

13 hours ago, Uli2001 said:

The reality is that this team has been mediocre, with the sole exception of 2014. They promptly lost Cruz and Miller after that season and went back to mediocre. All these years (with the exception of 2014), they have been pulling off non-losing seasons with smoke and mirrors and a lot of "Orioles Magic," winning a lot of one-run games, hitting a lot of well-timed homers, etc. Starting pitching has been non-existent all these years (except 2014) and the offense has been founded on lots of strikeouts and Camden Yards power. That was the case in 2012, 2013, 2015, and yes, 2016.

The fact that everyone praises the current regimen so much and are afraid of a change is solely because of the 1998-2011 wilderness. I will give them one thing, they have been consistent the past five years (consistently mediocre). If this is enough for Orioles fans, that is, just not to stink so bad as in 1998-2011, then they have been good.

Rant over, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

I certainly don't praise them. Change is fine but there is the owner. I doubt very seriously if he would allow a rebuild which may be what is needed. And if you fired DD and Buck then the new may not be what you want. It could be worse. That  is why I can enjoy a baseball game. Win fine. Lose then okay. I don't let baseball or the Orioles guide my life. Life is too short for that especially when you are elderly like I am. 

 

 

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

Thought it was interesting that Buck said on MASN "it's time to look around. "  Sounds like a shot at the players. Is he starting to feel the heat?

Does he mean it's time for him to look around? Get out of this mess? 

[maybenxtyr]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

You got one of the two.    Here's a hint: the other team has not been to a World Series during the five-year span.   

I would guess Washington.

[Frobby]

18 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

I would guess Washington.

I'm only talking about the AL.

[Camden_yardbird]

Not mediocre, but also not building to greater things.  They have done a good job of building a competitive product by finding fringe players who over produce and using assets like draft picks to gill gaps.

That system is failing this year.  No one is having a career year, the fringe players are proving why they are fringe, and the robbing Peter to pay Paul system is proving to provide little organizational depth.

[allquixotic]

I think if they continue to lose 80-90% of their games played over the next two to three weeks, fans would be 100% justified in angrily demanding the termination of Buck and/or DD. I'm not saying I personally would want that -- I don't, really, because I know it wouldn't make things any better, especially this season.

But if anyone claimed they wanted that, I wouldn't shout them down or anything -- it would be completely understandable. And if the O's actually did fire one or both of them as a result, so be it. Somebody has to take the blame for these bums, and if it's going to be the leadership, that's unfortunate -- especially if it's Buck. But you know the old saying, "the Buck stops here"? Ultimately the leaders are responsible for their team members' success. And at some point you have to recognize that and go, "OK, it's time to get a new leader in here". You can't just tear up the contracts of every player on the team. And the vast majority of them are such poor baseball players that nobody would take them off our hands if we gave them away for free.

[El Gordo]

13 hours ago, HillbillyBird said:

If you were lucky enough to experience the magic of the original 'Oriole Way', that was no wilderness. It was a living hell. Being the old codger that I am, I've reveled in this mediocrity. September and hope make a sweet fragrance. :-)

13 hours ago, HillbillyBird said:

 

I don't know what Oriole way you're talking about, but the Oriole way of Paul Richards, Hank Bauer and Earl Weaver is a living hell I'd gladly revisit.

 

[Sessh]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

So, everyone knows that the Orioles won more games than any other AL team during 2012-16.    But, to test out your "smoke and mirrors" assertion, I totaled up the Pythagorean record of every team in the league over that period.    By that measure, the Orioles came in third, at 428 wins.    If that's mediocre by your standards, then so be it.   By the way, the Orioles were the only team to have a winning Pythagorean record all five years.

Anyone want to guess the two teams that finished ahead of the Orioles?     

My only two guesses are the Blue Jays and Rangers.

[bpilktree]

I do not think Buck is under any heat except the fans that just have waited for the failure.  I also thinks if Britton comes back healthy and pitches well that would be big for the team in the future.  I am not talking changing this team to buyers but a great selling piece.  This season we have three teams leading divisions and have also bullpens. This would be perfect for us in moving Britton and Brach and using the Twins Nats and Brewers against each other and maybe even Astros.  Those teams have some guys that can play the outfield  or SS and just about major league ready.   I think one of those teams pays a big price like what teams did last year.  Robles from the Nats,  Brinson from the Brewers, and Gordon SS from Twins.  Fisher from the Stros.  It would be interesting if we can move Brach and Britton for the two guys we gave up to get Nortis basically in Hader and Fisher.

[Frobby]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

So, everyone knows that the Orioles won more games than any other AL team during 2012-16.    But, to test out your "smoke and mirrors" assertion, I totaled up the Pythagorean record of every team in the league over that period.    By that measure, the Orioles came in third, at 428 wins.    If that's mediocre by your standards, then so be it.   By the way, the Orioles were the only team to have a winning Pythagorean record all five years.

Anyone want to guess the two teams that finished ahead of the Orioles?     

 

4 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

Royals and Blue Jays?

 

1 hour ago, birdwatcher55 said:

Yankees?

 

23 minutes ago, Sessh said:

My only two guesses are the Blue Jays and Rangers.

Believe it or not, the no. 1 team is....the Oakland A's, with 434 Pythagorean wins.    Here's a full list: 

OAK 434

TOR 429

BAL 428

BOS 425

DET 424

LAA 424

TBR 419

NYY 418

TEX 415

KCR 412

CLE 412

SEA 401

CWS 371

HOU 363

MIN 353

I'd also point out that the Orioles accomplished their third-best Pythagorean record while playing in the toughest division in baseball -- every AL East team had a Pythagorean record of .516 or better.     

 

[Ohfan67]

If Dan has had a lot of freedom with how to spend the money, then the Orioles would be justified if they fired him at this point. But that's a big if. 

[Uli2001]

5 hours ago, vab said:

The best record in the AL from 2012-16 is mediocre? Ridiculous. That doesn't mean it's not time for change now but the premise of this thread is wrong. 

I was fully aware of that when I wrote the OP. I did say they were consistent, consistently mediocre (plus one really good season). That will give you the best record over 5 years. But do you get a trophy for that? Meanwhile, low-budget KC made the WS twice over that span, and won it once. 

[bpilktree]

3 minutes ago, Uli2001 said:

I was fully aware of that when I wrote the OP. I did say they were consistent, consistently mediocre (plus one really good season). That will give you the best record over 5 years. But do you get a trophy for that? Meanwhile, low-budget KC made the WS twice over that span, and won it once. 

Mediocre is around the middle of the pack.  Last year we had the 6th best record in baseball.  2015 was the average or mediocre year.  2014 we had 2nd best record in baseball.  2013 12th best but still 8 over .500.  That year was crazy with so many good teams,  2012 7th best record.  So I would say we had one great year two very good years and two average years.