Buck Showalter: “They’re capable of better”

[AZRon]

Here are some stats for our current starting rotation:
GS = Games Started
QS = Quality Starts
%   = Percentage of Starts that were Quality Starts
IP   = Average Innings Pitched in Starts
RA  = Average Runs Allowed in Starts

                                                   Average
                         GS    QS      %    IP   RA
Dylan Bundy      19     13   68.4  6.0   2.8
Kevin Gausman 21      6    28.6  5.0   3.5
Chris Tillman      13      3    23.0  4.6   3.8
Wade Miley        20      5    25.0  4.9   3.3
Ubaldo Jiménez 14      3    21.4  5.0   4.4

There are 50 pitchers in the AL who have had 13 or more starts.; six of those have less than 30% quality starts; the 2 non-Orioles are Jharel Cotton and Yovani Gallardo, each at approximately 29%

As I’ve said several times in earlier posts, there are wins foregone by failing to substitute for our failing starters with pitchers from Duquette’s menagerie .

The O’s current record is 46 - 51; pick up just 5 wins and the Orioles are the current wildcard leader and just 2 losses out of 1^st in the AL East.

This is all on the choices made by Buck Showalter and Dan Duquette and “They’re capable of better”.

[Finisher]

20 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

As bad ad some of the decisions were you can simply pin this season on Tillman's injury and Gausman's regression.   Those two perform to reasonable expectations and I'd say that's easily 5 games.

Handing rotation spots to Ubaldo and Miley bothers me more because you basically knew the outcome in advance.

[DirtyBird]

4 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Sure, but it's not like we had better options at the time.   That falls on Duquette.    They had money invested in Miley and Ubaldo.   They were going to sink or swim with both of them and they sunk.   Still, even as bad as though two are, and it's certainly not a complete surprise, the truly unexpected outcomes are Tillman and Gausman.    Of course, Tillman was injured towards the end of last year and we knew there was a problem coming into ST.   The O's were pretty much maxed out at a 160M payroll.   At that point, DD was stuck between a rock and a hard place, but he's the one who put himself there.

But you just said that "as bad as moves were, it falls on Tillman's injury and Gausman's downfall." So this response kinda goes against your original comment.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

14 minutes ago, Finisher said:

Handing rotation spots to Ubaldo and Miley bothers me more because you basically knew the outcome in advance.

Tillman and Gausman are capable of being better.  Ubaldo and Miley, did anyone think they would be league average or better?

I had some hope that Miley could post a 4.00 ERA before the season. 

I know there aren't any ideal options, but I'm at the point where I want to see someone else other then Ubaldo or Miley. 

If there was a worst pitcher of the month award, Miley and Ubaldo would finish in a tie for July. 

[DirtyBird]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

How so?

Because it lies as much with the bad Ublado/Miley moves as it does with Tillman/Gausman, and you pretty much say so yourself.

[AZRon]

35 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Sure, but it's not like we had better options at the time.   That falls on Duquette.    They had money invested in Miley and Ubaldo.   They were going to sink or swim with both of them and they sunk.   Still, even as bad as though two are, and it's certainly not a complete surprise, the truly unexpected outcomes are Tillman and Gausman.    Of course, Tillman was injured towards the end of last year and we knew there was a problem coming into ST.   The O's were pretty much maxed out at a 160M payroll.   At that point, DD was stuck between a rock and a hard place, but he's the one who put himself there.

Why isn't (wasn't) cycling through all of Duquette's "bargain" pickups a better choice. Could Asher, Aquino, etc. have performed as "well" or better?

In small sample sizes, they did.

[SteveA]

I hate these arguments about whether the Problem is "A" or the Problem is "B".

Do we suck this year because of Tillman or Gausman's regression, or because of Ubaldo and Miley acquisitions?   Did Arrieta do better in Chicago because he got better coaching there, or because he was allowed to alter his motion there, or because he was a head case who took a while to figure things out?   Etc.

And everyone who is one one side or hte other tires to minimize the other factor.   Those who think that we suck because of TIllman/Gausman will argue we could be doing well if they were better; the opposite side says it's all because of Ubaldo and Miley.   And they go back and forth.   As if there's one RIGHT answer and all other answers are wrong.

Those arguments are so silly.   We are 7 games under .500 because of Miley, because of Ubaldo, because of Gausman, because of Tillman, because of injuries, because of our poor minor league system, because of other bad signings, because we traded prospects, etc.

Sitting here arguing the reason has to be one and trying to minimize all the others is crazy.  Every factor contributes.

[AZRon]

4 hours ago, SteveA said:

I hate these arguments about whether the Problem is "A" or the Problem is "B".....

....  Every factor contributes.

I am stating that it is the responsibility of Duquette and Showalter to acquire, develop and deploy players in such a manner as to minimize game losses during the season.  As to starting pitching, "they are capable of better".

[OFFNY]

o

 

The starting rotation at-large (except for Tillman) has been pitching more capably as of late, as Showalter proclaimed that they could.

It remains to be seen as to whether or not they can sustain it over a longer stretch of the season.

 

o

[AZRon]

3 hours ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

The starting rotation at-large (except for Tillman) has been pitching more capably as of late, as Showalter proclaimed that they could.

It remains to be seen as to whether or not they can sustain it over a longer stretch of the season.

 

o

Here are the updated stats:
GS = Games Started
QS = Quality Starts
%  = Percentage of Starts that were Quality Starts
IP = Average Innings Pitched in Starts
RA = Average Runs Allowed in Starts

                                                            Average
                                  GS    QS      %   IP    RA
Dylan Bundy              21     14   66.7   6.1   3.0
Jeremy Hellickson     21       9   42.9   5.7   3.0
Kevin Gausman        24       9   37.5   5.3   3.1
Wade Miley               23      5    21.7  5.0   3.3
Ubaldo Jiménez        17      5   29.4   6.2   4.4

Chris Tillman            15      3   20.0   4.4   4.3

Hellickson's stats include his starts with the Phillies.

The Orioles are 3 losses behind the Royals for the 2nd wildcard and 7 losses behind the Red Sox for the division lead.

I believe that Duquette's acquisition will be helpful in their attempt to reach the post-season (it already has resulted in 1 win and, most likely, prevented a loss).

I continue to maintain that had Duquette and Showalter acted sooner to replace one or more of our 3 poorest performing starting pitchers with selections from the Duquette minor league/bullpen menagerie (or an available Hellickson clone via trade), at least 5 Oriole losses could have been avoided.

The O’s current record is 55 - 56; pick up just 5 wins and the Orioles are the current wildcard leader and just 2 losses out of 1st in the AL East.

This is all on the choices made by Buck Showalter and Dan Duquette and “They’re capable of better”.

[Tx Oriole]

On 7/23/2017 at 0:25 PM, SteveA said:

I hate these arguments about whether the Problem is "A" or the Problem is "B".

Do we suck this year because of Tillman or Gausman's regression, or because of Ubaldo and Miley acquisitions?   Did Arrieta do better in Chicago because he got better coaching there, or because he was allowed to alter his motion there, or because he was a head case who took a while to figure things out?   Etc.

And everyone who is one one side or hte other tires to minimize the other factor.   Those who think that we suck because of TIllman/Gausman will argue we could be doing well if they were better; the opposite side says it's all because of Ubaldo and Miley.   And they go back and forth.   As if there's one RIGHT answer and all other answers are wrong.

Those arguments are so silly.   We are 7 games under .500 because of Miley, because of Ubaldo, because of Gausman, because of Tillman, because of injuries, because of our poor minor league system, because of other bad signings, because we traded prospects, etc.

Sitting here arguing the reason has to be one and trying to minimize all the others is crazy.  Every factor contributes.

thats a good post SteveA. 

[NickM21]

I refuse to believe Chris Tillman has done anything this season deemed "quality".

[O's are Legends]

This has nothing to do with pitching but I believe the O's are capable of better when it comes to play in certain areas. O's had some poor baserunning against the Angels this past week. There was also a pop up Davis should have catched, on that play itself Schoop had a opportunity to take charge and make the catch himself.

Yestetday, Smith hit a high chopper that may have hit his hand. He took it for granted thinking the ump would call it that way; instead it was a live ball. Neither Davis or Smith hustled that play leading to a double play.

On a sharp groudner pass the first base bag Davis should have taken the sure out at 1st, instead he threw home, in this case the throw was late and the runner scored anyway and no out was recorded anywhere. 

[TouchemAll]

I like Buck, this isn't meant to bash Buck, BUT he's been telling us that all year.

I think at this point the mold has been cast for this team.

Barring a needle moving pitching trade they are MAYBE a .500 team.

Will that get them a 2nd wild card? I would not put a any money on it. JMHO

[Cumberbundy]

Buck has been very strange in his use of ZB. He's capable of better.