2009... Adding Two Monster FA's

[VeveJones007]

The White Sox didn't have a true ace in 2005. They had 4 or 5 #2 guys though. Nothing wrong with that at all.

You gotta think though: the D-Backs won in 2001 almost entirely beause of Schill and the Unit. Those guys just dominated the Yankees. It's tough to beat a team in a 5 or 7 game series when you se an ace almost every game.

Contreras pitched like an ace that whole second half. The thing about having a lot of #2's is that when one of them is hot, they pitch like an ace.

[PoorMike]

Contreras pitched like an ace that whole second half. The thing about having a lot of #2's is that when one of them is hot, they pitch like an ace.

Yeah, and Burle and Garland were pitching like aces too. MB definitely got some ace type money last year.

[Pedro Cerrano]

It's clear to me that starting pitchers (at least grade A ones) will get big money that is not worth it due to health reasons.

Big time hitters are much safer investments IMO. Not sure if I endorse the idea of Crowley ruining Adam Dunn's walk rate, but I'd def go after Tex.

[MarCakes21]

Huff isn't even that old.. He's barely a year ahead of Roberts, and he's been DHing since he got here. He's a good hitter with low milage, so to speak. I say keep him. He's dirt cheap if he continues to hit like this.

The three best pieces we could make a run at this year, in order of importance, are: Texiera, Furcal (maybe older now, but he's still really, REALLY good when he's healthy), and Dunn. If we only get one of the three, ok, we're still much better off than we are right now. Can we get two of them? Yeah, I think so. Not unrealistic to me.

Getting all three of them would immediately put us into contention. This would be different than O's FA signings of the past 10 years. We'd be getting some big time guys to complete our roster, not start it. That would be huge!

I agree with you on all of this. Getting all three would be huge, and two would put us into contention I believe. However, this has always been the Orioles MO but they never are an attractive enough place for players to sign. Therefore, they settle for lower tier free agents who want the money and only put up mediocre production. As this franchise rebuilds, it CANNOT sign any veteran presence free agents, because the goal is for the players who are on our roster now to be the veterans, and when they leave, players left like Markakis, Scott, Guts, DCab, Sherrill, and others will be the vet presence in years to come. There is no need to sign the 30 year old mediocre hitter.

[YankThis!]

Thinking about our window here, I think that Weiters and Reimold take a year to develop and our Tillman/Arrieta will take a year. We won't see our new lefty until probably 2010 or late next year. I just don't see us contending particularly given the youth and depth of the Rays organization and the juggernaut in Boston. I think 2010 or 2011 is our year. Nothing we do this offseason is going to make us a contender short of burning everything down for a mass influx of free agents (a futile strategy).

[hatepaste]

But would Tex sign here without feeling he has a chance to win? Sabathia legitimizes the rotation.

Sabathia legitimizes the buffet line, and that's about it. Don't think we need to make that kind of free agent signing, as far as a pitcher goes.

Tex on the other hand. That's huge, just check my signature below.

[VeveJones007]

Thinking about our window here, I think that Weiters and Reimold take a year to develop and our Tillman/Arrieta will take a year. We won't see our new lefty until probably 2010 or late next year. I just don't see us contending particularly given the youth and depth of the Rays organization and the juggernaut in Boston. I think 2010 or 2011 is our year. Nothing we do this offseason is going to make us a contender short of burning everything down for a mass influx of free agents (a futile strategy).

I agree, but there is only one year between 2008 and 2010 you know. If in 2009 you sign the pieces you'll need when you're realistically ready to contend, you'll still have them in 2010 and 2011.

[Maverick2143]

The White Sox didn't have a true ace in 2005. They had 4 or 5 #2 guys though. Nothing wrong with that at all.

You gotta think though: the D-Backs won in 2001 almost entirely beause of Schill and the Unit. Those guys just dominated the Yankees. It's tough to beat a team in a 5 or 7 game series when you se an ace almost every game.

Ehhh.. I'd say Buehrle with 236 innings at an ERA+ of 144 is an ace, the AL leader that year was at 155+.

Buehrle actually ranks pretty high among active players in alot of career stats;

ERA+:15

ERA: 25

K/BB: 20

Wins: 33

WHIP: 17

Complete Games: 19

Innings: 29

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/

I know those aren't the most scientific stats and some of them are counting stats, but I think you can agree the guy is or was for a period of time one of the best 10 or 15 pitchers in baseball

[IamtheSkip]

Thinking about our window here, I think that Weiters and Reimold take a year to develop and our Tillman/Arrieta will take a year. We won't see our new lefty until probably 2010 or late next year. I just don't see us contending particularly given the youth and depth of the Rays organization and the juggernaut in Boston. I think 2010 or 2011 is our year. Nothing we do this offseason is going to make us a contender short of burning everything down for a mass influx of free agents (a futile strategy).

I'm more in the 2011-2013 group, but your points are generally what I believe.

For the O's to be a real competitor in 2010, they'd have to execute a series of trades for new position players, all of whom would have to have immediate success.

Then all the young pitching we're developing would simultaneously have to have near instant success, in what is more than likely to be their first full season in the bigs.

The odds of that happening are not good. Look at the Rays. They're fantastic this year, but the guys doing the winning have been the core of the team for at least the last few seasons. Now they're all just finally coming together.

The O's are working on it. But they're a ways away yet.

[YankThis!]

I agree, but there is only one year between 2008 and 2010 you know. If in 2009 you sign the pieces you'll need when you're realistically ready to contend, you'll still have them in 2010 and 2011.

:thumbsup1:

[YankThis!]

I'm more in the 2011-2013 group, but your points are generally what I believe.

For the O's to be a real competitor in 2010, they'd have to execute a series of trades for new position players, all of whom would have to have immediate success.

Then all the young pitching we're developing would simultaneously have to have near instant success, in what is more than likely to be their first full season in the bigs.

The odds of that happening are not good. Look at the Rays. They're fantastic this year, but the guys doing the winning have been the core of the team for at least the last few seasons. Now they're all just finally coming together.

The O's are working on it. But they're a ways away yet.

Basically you're saying we'd have to do the same thing the Rays have done this year, which requires both brilliant execution and incredible luck. Couldn't agree more.

[PlumOriole]

I like the line-up Tony but I'm a little surprised you'd bring Reimold up to put on the bench. I'd rather have someone like Salazar up and keep Reimold down at Norfolk/Bowie getting ABs and be ready if there's an injury.

I would be shocked if AM went after Sabathia. He's not giving big money to a FA pitcher, especially in our situation. I would be very happy if Dunn and Tex were on board. If AM could get Furcal or some young guy like Escobar in a trade for SS, he'd never pay for a dinner in this town again.

[LookinUp]

Who was the last monster FA pitcher who was actually worth the contract they got?

How about Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz (if you consider his contract "monster")?

[YankThis!]

How about Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz (if you consider his contract "monster")?

Ramirez throws hard and all but he tends to hang his curve against righties. Also, I'd like to see him develop a change up. He also has yet to record a win, loss, or IP for the Sox. Otherwise, he was a steal.:rofl:

[NewMarketSean]

Huff isn't even that old.. He's barely a year ahead of Roberts, and he's been DHing since he got here. He's a good hitter with low milage, so to speak. I say keep him. He's dirt cheap if he continues to hit like this.

The question remains, will he continue to hit like this? And will he continue to hit like this in 2-3 years, when realistically speaking, the O's should be able to make a run? Matter of fact, he's not signed after 2009.

The three best pieces we could make a run at this year, in order of importance, are: Texiera, Furcal (maybe older now, but he's still really, REALLY good when he's healthy), and Dunn. If we only get one of the three, ok, we're still much better off than we are right now. Can we get two of them? Yeah, I think so. Not unrealistic to me.

Getting all three of them would immediately put us into contention. This would be different than O's FA signings of the past 10 years. We'd be getting some big time guys to complete our roster, not start it. That would be huge!

I don't see MacPhail's O's signing big-time FA's save for Tex, and that is mostly because of the coincidence that we desperately need a slugging 1B and Tex is from the area. If Tex was from Texas, then I don't think we even consider signing him. I think he has more to do with Angelos' wanting to replace Ripken as the next local O's superstar.

We'll get a SS in a trade and we'll just have to make due with what we've got, or what we can sign cheaply for DH needs.