MASN dispute update

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Beetlejuice said:

Probably more lawsuits. 

This one isn’t over.    There are two possible levels of appeal.    It could take 1-2 years before this case is truly finished.    

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Frobby said:

This one isn’t over.    There are two possible levels of appeal.    It could take 1-2 years before this case is truly finished.    

Help me out here Frobby.  I've lost track.  What is the current payment that the O's have to make and is it different from the original ruling?

[Frobby]

12 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Help me out here Frobby.  I've lost track.  What is the current payment that the O's have to make and is it different from the original ruling?

Very moderately different.   The five year total is very close but the growth rate is slower, so that future awards if they apply the same logic should be less than they would have been under the prior rationale.   I think the awards went from about $55 mm to $65 mm over the 5 years covered by the ruling, with a total of $296 mm for the 5 years.   

[Satyr3206]

At this rate this case will be settled in 2033. 10 years to the day since the Orioles won the World Series.

[drjohnnyfeva]

Maybe we could just send them Chris Davis???  His present value would cover the interest and a little more.  Just put him in a box, tape it up, and send it to Nationals Park certified mail.  Problems solved.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

10 hours ago, drjohnnyfeva said:

Maybe we could just send them Chris Davis???  His present value would cover the interest and a little more.  Just put him in a box, tape it up, and send it to Nationals Park certified mail.  Problems solved.

[Beetlejuice]

On 11/16/2019 at 10:03 PM, Frobby said:

This one isn’t over.    There are two possible levels of appeal.    It could take 1-2 years before this case is truly finished.    

At this point, this is throwing good money after bad.  Any appeal is almost certain to be doomed.  What error has the court committed to warrant review?  Angelos just lived through one of his biggest fears.  The Nats winning a World Series.

[TonySoprano]

On 11/16/2019 at 10:03 PM, Frobby said:

This one isn’t over.    There are two possible levels of appeal.    It could take 1-2 years before this case is truly finished.    

What does truly finished mean?  Didn't this start as part of the negotiations for the 2012-16 rights fees?  What happens for 2017-21?  The next 5 years beyond that?  Do the lawsuits never end?

[Frobby]

32 minutes ago, Beetlejuice said:

At this point, this is throwing good money after bad.  Any appeal is almost certain to be doomed.  What error has the court committed to warrant review?  Angelos just lived through one of his biggest fears.  The Nats winning a World Series.

I agree their chances are grim.  I believe in the last round of appeals, the NY Court of Appeals (highest court in NY) refused to hear the question of whether the case was properly remanded to the RSDC instead of an unaffiliated arbitrator, on the grounds that they would only consider it after there was a “final” ruling by the lower courts on all issues.   The intermediate court had split 3-2 on that issue, so I suppose there’s some hope there.   

[Frobby]

34 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

What does truly finished mean?  Didn't this start as part of the negotiations for the 2012-16 rights fees?  What happens for 2017-21?  The next 5 years beyond that?  Do the lawsuits never end?

Hard to say, because the O’s and Nats may not do what rational business people would do.    But in my opinion, the rationale of the RSDC is pretty clear, and if it is affirmed by the courts, it is pretty straightforward to apply that same rationale to future periods, making the necessary adjustments based on MASN’s revenues and expenses at the time.     The difference between the highest and lowest possible amount based on that reasoning won’t be that drastic, and reasonable people would just compromise in the middle somewhere and move on with life.     But this is a blood feud, so who knows.   

[Beetlejuice]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I agree their chances are grim.  I believe in the last round of appeals, the NY Court of Appeals (highest court in NY) refused to hear the question of whether the case was properly remanded to the RSDC instead of an unaffiliated arbitrator, on the grounds that they would only consider it after there was a “final” ruling by the lower courts on all issues.   The intermediate court had split 3-2 on that issue, so I suppose there’s some hope there.   

Correct me if I’m wrong.  INAL, but am married to one and the way she’s explained it to me appeals aren’t an opportunity to relitigate a case, but only to review the lower court’s decision to see if they made an error in applying the law.  IIRC the O’s/MASN strategy in the latest decision was to hammer on the evident partiality angle, particularly the $25M loan and Manfred’s public statements.  The judge wasn't even remotely convinced. 

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, Beetlejuice said:

Correct me if I’m wrong.  INAL, but am married to one and the way she’s explained it to me appeals aren’t an opportunity to relitigate a case, but only to review the lower court’s decision to see if they made an error in applying the law.  IIRC the O’s/MASN strategy in the latest decision was to hammer on the evident partiality angle, particularly the $25M loan and Manfred’s public statements.  The judge wasn't even remotely convinced. 

INAL is a thing?

You are basically right.    The standard for overturning a factual determination is very high.    

[Beetlejuice]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Hard to say, because the O’s and Nats may not do what rational business people would do.    But in my opinion, the rationale of the RSDC is pretty clear, and if it is affirmed by the courts, it is pretty straightforward to apply that same rationale to future periods, making the necessary adjustments based on MASN’s revenues and expenses at the time.     The difference between the highest and lowest possible amount based on that reasoning won’t be that drastic, and reasonable people would just compromise in the middle somewhere and move on with life.     But this is a blood feud, so who knows.   

There is almost no chance that MASN and the Nationals will agree upon FMV, because of said blood feud.  So this will be kicked to the RSDC.  Isn’t the FMV supposed to be determined at the beginning of the period since the Nats and Os are supposed to be paid annually?  If so I fully expect the Nats to press for a determination sooner rather than later.

This bugaboo needs to be put to rest, if only for the sake of O’s fans.  They’ve got to be pissed at Angelos fighting over every nickel in a pique of jealousy instead of focusing on a sorely needed rebuild strategy.

[Beetlejuice]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

INAL is a thing?

It should be even for some lawyers.

[Frobby]

Minor victory for MASN last week, in a separate dispute about whether MASN was required to pay a dividend last year:

“Four judges ruled unanimously Tuesday to allow the American Arbitration Association to hear arguments over whether MASN, which has the exclusive broadcast rights to the Nationals and Baltimore Orioles but is controlled by the Orioles, must pay out a dividend to the Nationals of between $5 million and $10 million, according to people familiar with the case.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/11/19/court-sides-with-masn-profit-distribution-dispute-with-nationals/%3foutputType=amp

This is not the big dispute over the amount of rights fees that are owed.    This is about whether MASN is obliged to pay dividends.