The 1st Base Runners Lane

[OFFNY]

On 8/10/2016 at 2:27 PM, OFFNY said:

o

 

The Rays' announcer last night asserted that he has never seen a right-handed batter use the runner's lane. If you go directly from the batter's box to 1st base, you will not be in the runner's lane.

And frankly, even though I usually don't pay attention to batters running from home plate to 1st base to unless a call such as last night's is made, but he was emphatic about it.

What I will do is try to look specifically how the right-handed batter's run from home plate to 1st base, even though they rarely show that.

You may be correct, but any time that I can remember a batter (particularly a right-handed batter) running from home plate to 1st base, they have always made a beeline from point A (the batter's box) to Point B (1st base) ........ which does not include the runner's lane, which is in foul territory.

 

o

 

 

On 8/10/2016 at 2:31 PM, Number5 said:

 

I am a right handed batter. I always run on the foul side of the line and touched the foul side of the bag on any infield play at first, as I was coached to do from an early age. Everyone I know does the same. Running in fair territory would result in collisions with the first baseman. Of this I have zero doubt. Really, this is just simply not a problem for the players. On hits to the outfield, players run even further into foul territory in order to get an angle to cut the inside corner of the bag as they turn toward second. I really don't know who the Rays' announcer is, but he has clearly never really watched the runners. They run in foul territory, believe me.

 

 

 

On 8/10/2016 at 2:33 PM, OFFNY said:

o

 

You seem certain about this, and if you are indeed correct, I will stand corrected.

Again, for my own curiosity, I will try to watch right-handed batters running from home plate to 1st base on ground balls, bunts, and infield dribblers in the near future.

 

o

o

 

OK, the play today involving Adam Jones reminded me that in April of 2017 I did this experiment with the right-handed batters (while sitting directly behind home plate.)

On every ground-ball in the infield that I kept track of (almost all of them, with the exception of when I went to the bathroom), the right-handed batters on both teams did not use the box/running lane which is required by rule. They all made a beeline directly from the (right-handed) batter's box to first base ........ and that direct line was inside of the running lane/box.

 

I'm not arguing today's specific call against Jones and the Orioles, but rather the rule itself, which is (in my rat's ass of an opinion) very unrealistic to ask right-handed batters to abide by. There may not be an easy solution, but I believe that it is clearly a problem.

 

o

[NashLumber]

I think part of the problem is that there is about an 8” gap from the grass to the baseline. A runner is likely thinking as long as he’s on the dirt, he’s doing fine. But one can run 3/4 of the route to first with a right leg in the basepath and the left leg on or over the line and still not be on the grass. And you’re right, a runner has to make this  late dart or lunge left as he approaches the bag. In tonight’s case the catcher looked like he threw specifically at Adam so he’d get that call.

There was a play similar to this in the ‘69 World Series where I think Pete Richert fielded a soft roller and hit a runner going to first (but the runner in this case was out of the baseline) and he did not get the call the Jays got tonight. 

 

Edit: Was a bunt in 10th inning. 

 

[NashLumber]

15 minutes ago, NashLumber said:

I think part of the problem is that there is about an 8” gap from the grass to the baseline. A runner is likely thinking as long as he’s on the dirt, he’s doing fine. But one can run 3/4 of the route to first with a right leg in the basepath and the left leg on or over the line and still not be on the grass. And you’re right, a runner has to make this  late dart or lunge left as he approaches the bag. In tonight’s case the catcher looked like he threw specifically at Adam so he’d get that call.

There was a play similar to this in the ‘69 World Series where I think Pete Richert fielded a soft roller and hit a runner going to first (but the runner in this case was out of the baseline) and he did not get the call the Jays got tonight. 

 

Edit: Was a bunt in 10th inning. 

 

Of course, Earl getting tossed from that Series was another video in the YouTube suggested videos. I just had to watch. I had arrived from school that afternoon from the bus stop just as that was happening. Remember it well. 

[Rich Mac]

This rule was totally unfair to Rob Dibble

[OFFNY]

o

 

In an interview, J.C. Martin (the Mets player who was involved in the famous non-call from the 1969 World Series) stated what I have been contending in terms of right-handed batters, except that he is making the argument for left-handed batters as well. 

 

"Remember first base is actually in fair territory. If you are a left handed hitter and you run inside that double line just to the right of the base, you’ll never even touch the bag if you run straight at it. I ran straight towards the bag. The funny thing is that nobody really made a big deal about it until the papers came out the next day. They had a picture that showed Pete Richert’s throw hitting my on the left wrist."

 

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/jc_martin_interview.shtml

 

 

If Martin is making the argument for left-handed batters, I believe that an even better-case can be made for right-handed batters. Running full speed out of the box (for a right-handed batter) and running directly for the bag does not seem conducive to getting into the runner's lane (and staying in that lane until you are one step from touching the bag.)

 

Again, I am not arguing on behalf of the Orioles (including tonight's play with Adam Jones.) Earlier in the thread, I cited a case in which the call went in the Orioles' favor. Rather, I am arguing that this rule is extremely difficult to abide by for a right-handed batter. And as I also previously stated, there may not be an easy solution, but I believe that it is clearly a problem.

 

o

[Rich Mac]

1 minute ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

In an interview, J.C. Martin (the Mets player who was involved in the famous non-call from the 1969 World Series) statedwhat I have been contending in terms of right-handed batters, except that he is making the argument for left-handed batters, as well. 

 

"Remember first base is actually in fair territory. If you are a left handed hitter and you run inside that double line just to the right of the base, you’ll never even touch the bag if you run straight at it. I ran straight towards the bag. The funny thing is that nobody really made a big deal about it until the papers came out the next day. They had a picture that showed Pete Richert’s throw hitting my on the left wrist."

 

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/jc_martin_interview.shtml

 

 

If Martin is making the argument for left-handed batters, I believe that an even better-case can be made for right-handed batters.

 

Again, I am not arguing on behalf of the Orioles (including tonight's play with Adam Jones.) Earlier in the thread, I cited a case in which the call went in the Orioles'favor. Rather, I am arguing that this rule is extremely difficult to abide by for a right-handed batter. And as I also stated, there may not be an easy solution, but I believe that it is clearly a problem.

 

o

It's near-impossible for right-handed hitters to follow the rule by the book. However, without the rule, you risk batters intentionally putting their bodies in the field of play to block the throw. You could put a softball bag down at first. I would personally hate seeing that.

[NashLumber]

2 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

In an interview, J.C. Martin (the Mets player who was involved in the famous non-call from the 1969 World Series) statedwhat I have been contending in terms of right-handed batters, except that he is making the argument for left-handed batters as well. 

 

"Remember first base is actually in fair territory. If you are a left handed hitter and you run inside that double line just to the right of the base, you’ll never even touch the bag if you run straight at it. I ran straight towards the bag. The funny thing is that nobody really made a big deal about it until the papers came out the next day. They had a picture that showed Pete Richert’s throw hitting my on the left wrist."

 

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/jc_martin_interview.shtml

 

 

If Martin is making the argument for left-handed batters, I believe that an even better-case can be made for right-handed batters.

 

Again, I am not arguing on behalf of the Orioles (including tonight's play with Adam Jones.) Earlier in the thread, I cited a case in which the call went in the Orioles'favor. Rather, I am arguing that this rule is extremely difficult to abide by for a right-handed batter. And as I also stated, there may not be an easy solution, but I believe that it is clearly a problem.

 

o

Maybe putting the bag in foul territory would help? I know it sounds radical, but it would be safer. And if by a quirk a batted ball hits the bag, it will be called foul. The only thing it would really affect adversely is it would be a half step longer to run when one tags up. But it would still be 90 feet, the actual rule. 

[OFFNY]

12 minutes ago, OFFNY said:

o

 

In an interview, J.C. Martin (the Mets player who was involved in the famous non-call from the 1969 World Series) stated what I have been contending in terms of right-handed batters, except that he is making the argument for left-handed batters as well. 

 

"Remember first base is actually in fair territory. If you are a left handed hitter and you run inside that double line just to the right of the base, you’ll never even touch the bag if you run straight at it. I ran straight towards the bag. The funny thing is that nobody really made a big deal about it until the papers came out the next day. They had a picture that showed Pete Richert’s throw hitting my on the left wrist."

 

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/jc_martin_interview.shtml

 

 

If Martin is making the argument for left-handed batters, I believe that an even better-case can be made for right-handed batters. Running full speed out of the box (for a right-handed batter) and running directly for the bag does not seem conducive to getting into the runner's lane.

 

Again, I am not arguing on behalf of the Orioles (including tonight's play with Adam Jones.) Earlier in the thread, I cited a case in which the call went in the Orioles' favor. Rather, I am arguing that this rule is extremely difficult to abide by for a right-handed batter. And as I also previously stated, there may not be an easy solution, but I believe that it is clearly a problem.

 

o

 

 

6 minutes ago, Rich Mac said:

 

It's near-impossible for right-handed hitters to follow the rule by the book. However, without the rule, you risk batters intentionally putting their bodies in the field of play to block the throw. You could put a softball bag down at first. I would personally hate seeing that.

 

o

 

If it's near-impossible for them to abide by it, then it's a problem.

And I agree, you can't just throw the rule out because the fielder needs to be able to make a direct throw to first base on bunts and slow dribblers that are right out in front of home plate.

There is obviously no easy solution, but as it stands now it is very unfair to the right-handed batters.

 

o

[Rich Mac]

17 hours ago, OFFNY said:

 

 

o

 

If it's near-impossible for them to abide by it, then it's a problem.

And I agree, you can't just throw the rule out because the fielder needs to be able to make a direct throw to first base on bunts and slow dribblers that are right out in front of home plate.

There is obviously no easy solution, but as it stands now it is very unfair to the right-handed batters.

 

o

I can think of three options:

a) Change the rules to give the umpire discretion to judge whether the batter/runner intentionally impedes a throw to first. However, this could create more chaos with umpires having to use their own judgement and fielders having to try and throw around runners.

b) Add a second line (maybe dashed or yellow) from the right hand batter's box to first. Allow the right handed batter/runner to stay to the right side of the new line to avoid any interference calls. However, this could create more chaos with fielders having to throw around runners. I could see right-handed batters trying to drop bunts in fair territory on the right side of that line to force catchers to make the play and then throw around them on the way to first.

As impossible as it is for righties to follow the rule by the book, it is also nearly as impossible to find a simple solution. I also can't see baseball making any changes to correct this unless one of these plays should cause the Yankees to lose a very high profile game.

[Rich Mac]

Just now, Rich Mac said:

I can think of three options:

a) Change the rules to give the umpire discretion to judge whether the batter/runner intentionally impedes a throw to first. However, this could create more chaos with umpires having to use their own judgement and fielders having to try and throw around runners.

b) Add a second line (maybe dashed or yellow) from the right hand batter's box to first. Allow the right handed batter/runner to stay to the right side of the new line to avoid any interference calls. However, this could create more chaos with fielders having to throw around runners. I could see right-handed batters trying to drop bunts in fair territory on the right side of that line to force catchers to make the play and then throw around them on the way to first.

As impossible as it is for righties to follow the rule by the book, it is also nearly as impossible to find a simple solution. I also can't see baseball making any changes to correct this unless one of these plays should cause the Yankees to lose a very high profile game.

I can't edit my own post....that would be TWO options 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Rich Mac said:

I can't edit my own post....that would be TWO options 

You should nominate yourself for the free plus membership, if you win you can edit your posts.

 

[tntoriole]

I believe runners should have a straighter path allowed to first.  Yes, that would pose certain obstacles to the throwing angle of a catcher, but so what.  If a ball is in that small window of the field, then catchers will need to learn how to slide quickly to their left and throw, or more lefty first basemen will make it easier.  But it has been unfair to hitters ever since the rule was created. 

[esmd]

Yeah I've never liked the rule.  If you ran straight down the lane you'd go right by first base without touching it.  Stupid rule.

[OFFNY]

On 8/9/2016 at 9:47 PM, OFFNY said:

o

 

I just viewed a call in a game between the Blue Jays and the D-Rays which was very controversial.

Actually, the rule itself is very controversial in the first place.

Mikie Mahtook hit a little dribbler in front of home plate. He ran directly to first base. After the Blue Jays threw the ball away, the umpire called the runner (Mahtook) out for "not running in the runner's lane." The problem is that first base is entirely in fair territory, and the runner's lane is entirely in foul territory.

So ........ how is a batter ........ particularly a right-handed batter ........ supposed to run from the batter's box across the foul line into the runner's lane, stay in the runner's lane for about 87 or 88 feet, and then at the last moment cross his stride over back to the bag ??? Just thinking about that sounds like a good way to injure yourself.

So in my rat's ass of an opinion, in addition to the fact there is an obvious problem with the fact that according to the rules a player CANNOT run in a straight line from the batter's box to 1st base, there is also an issue of the baserunners' safety.

Thanks for bearing with me, and I hope that I explained myself well enough to be understood.

 

o

 

 

On 4/9/2018 at 9:12 PM, OFFNY said:

o

 

OK, the play today involving Adam Jones reminded me that in April of 2017 I did this experiment with the right-handed batters (while sitting directly behind home plate.)

On every ground-ball in the infield that I kept track of (almost all of them, with the exception of when I went to the bathroom), the right-handed batters on both teams did not use the box/running lane which is required by rule. They all made a beeline directly from the (right-handed) batter's box to first base ........ and that direct line was inside of the running lane/box.

 

I'm not arguing today's specific call against Jones and the Orioles, but rather the rule itself, which is (in my rat's ass of an opinion) very unrealistic to ask right-handed batters to abide by. There may not be an easy solution, but I believe that it is clearly a problem.

 

o

o

 

My OP had to do specifically with right-handed batters, and how it seemed nearly impossible to run down the line at full speed on a direct line and somehow manage to run in the runner's lane (which is to the right of the 1st baseline.

Game Four of the 2018 World Series: Cody Bellinger is not even right-handed, and he just sprinted to 1st base on a ground-ball to the right side of the infield, and he was not in the runner's lane in his final 7 or 8 strides toward the bag. He was not called out for interference ........ I think that it was a good non-call, but he clearly was not in the runner's lane.

 

As I have stated previously, I don't think that there are any easy answers to deal with this rule. It seems to be unfair to hold the baserunner (especially right-handed batters) strictly to the rule of using the runner's lane, but I also believe that it seems unfair to the defense to not have the restriction because they also have a right to throw the ball directly to the 1st baseman as long as the throw is in fair territory.

 

o

[WillyM]

I can remember when I was a high school player, an umpire explained to my teammates and me about the three-foot lane rule, which calls for a batter approaching first base to run in the lane on the foul side of the baseline, so that he will not interfere with a throw from fair territory.  Long-time Oriole fans undoubtedly remember that the umpires working the 1969 World Series somehow forgot that this rule was in the book.

The ending of last night's game against the Rangers made me wonder a little bit.  Does the rule change if a throw to first base is coming from foul territory instead of fair territory?

Two out in the ninth, tying run on second, the batter (Andrus) struck out but the ball got past Severino, who had to chase it down and make a long throw to first.  For a moment, I had a nightmarish vision that the throw would hit Andrus and deflect away from Davis, allowing the tying run to score.  Fortunately, it didn't.

I couldn't tell from the replays which side of the baseline Andrus was running on or how close he came to being hit by the throw.

Does the rule call for the batter to run in the three-foot lane on the foul side of the baseline in all circumstances?  Or does it change and require him to run on the fair side of the line if he's trying to beat a throw from the foul side on a missed third strike?