I really want to keep Villar (Update: Traded to Marlins for LHS Easton Lucas)

[ChosenOne21]

Just now, weams said:

But he has no salary if waived or released? I am confused by this machination I guess. 

I was referring to what I would have rather seen done than waving him, I guess. Even so, I'll bet he gets more than a 10M guarantee on the open market (over multiple years) so it's conceivable teams would be willing to trade a prospect rather than enter a bidding war

[weams]

13 minutes ago, ChosenOne21 said:

I was referring to what I would have rather seen done than waving him, I guess. Even so, I'll bet he gets more than a 10M guarantee on the open market (over multiple years) so it's conceivable teams would be willing to trade a prospect rather than enter a bidding war

See, I think the only way he does is if he gets multi years. We'll see soon. 

[Roll Tide]

Quote

Souless Tanking Move!

https://nypost.com/2019/11/28/orioles-put-jonathan-villar-on-waivers-in-soulless-tanking-move/

[thezeroes]

30 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

https://nypost.com/2019/11/28/orioles-put-jonathan-villar-on-waivers-in-soulless-tanking-move/

 

 

31 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Souless Tanking Move!

Not the N Y Post but the worthless Buster Olney making another derogatory comment about anything Orioles

[atomic]

9 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

 

 

Not the N Y Post but the Buster Olney making another accurate comment about worthless Orioles

Fixed that for you. 

[Darkhawk]

If a team expected to lose 100+ games is soulless for not wanting to pay 10 million or so to a player coming off a 4 WAR season what does that make all of the contenders who have also decided that said player is not worth 10 million? 

[24fps]

2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Souless Tanking Move!

Whoa, suddenly there's a little outlaw cache to being an Orioles fan!  I never thought I'd see the day.  

[24fps]

6 minutes ago, Darkhawk said:

If a team expected to lose 100+ games is soulless for not wanting to pay 10 million or so to a player coming off a 4 WAR season what does that make all of the contenders who have also decided that said player is not worth 10 million? 

Sworn enemies of Scott Boras and the MLBPA?

[Roll Tide]

11 minutes ago, 24fps said:

Whoa, suddenly there's a little outlaw cache to being an Orioles fan!  I never thought I'd see the day.  

I'm disgusted .... I think anyone that has to be for something Orioles should be so also. I can't change anyone's mind that says Oh Well its a process and I trust it. I will say he is my favorite player since the dismantling. And he's one of the few reasons I watched any games this year.

[section18]

I posted Olney's comments yesterday on here. Not reading everyone's posts?

[Roll Tide]

16 minutes ago, section18 said:

I posted Olney's comments yesterday on here. Not reading everyone's posts?

I just quoted the posts article

 

[24fps]

17 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I'm disgusted .... I think anyone that has to be for something Orioles should be so also. I can't change anyone's mind that says Oh Well its a process and I trust it. I will say he is my favorite player since the dismantling. And he's one of the few reasons I watched any games this year.

I can't say I'm disgusted - more like genuinely annoyed.  I would have kept Villar unless it was a clear case of limited payroll dollars for arb eligible players and he was sacrificed to allow the rest to be retained.  I suspect that is partially the case.  

I am more than a little sympathetic to worthwhile players victimized by strict adherance to team-building systems.  Ultimately I'm a fan of the guys on the field, not the guys on the phone (and that most certainly includes agents).

I'm very interested in seeing how the market finally values Villar after his 2019 season.  I predict we're going to see a further reduction in FA compensation across the board except maybe for a few players at the very, very top of the class.  Perhaps that is also informing Elias' decision making in regard to Villar.

[Roll Tide]

43 minutes ago, 24fps said:

I can't say I'm disgusted - more like genuinely annoyed.  I would have kept Villar unless it was a clear case of limited payroll dollars for arb eligible players and he was sacrificed to allow the rest to be retained.  I suspect that is partially the case.  

I am more than a little sympathetic to worthwhile players victimized by strict adherance to team-building systems.  Ultimately I'm a fan of the guys on the field, not the guys on the phone (and that most certainly includes agents).

I'm very interested in seeing how the market finally values Villar after his 2019 season.  I predict we're going to see a further reduction in FA compensation across the board except maybe for a few players at the very, very top of the class.  Perhaps that is also informing Elias' decision making in regard to Villar.

The problem is the Orioles have the money and are choosing not to pay him. And they were unsuccessful at getting anything for him if he's claimed by 1 or 0 teams. Its s silly gamble imo for a team whose payroll is down nearly 100 Million dollars.

I get the rebuild and understand the process...I just don't think that should prevent you from paying a good player in his prime. If he was traded for assets so be it.

I think it was a miscalculation by Elias on his market. I think he passed on offers that he viewed as short at the deadline. Who wouldn't Villar for the stretch run at a reasonable price. Then he didnt bother to discuss a compromise with Villar because he was sure he was going to be able to deal him and that didn't work as he hasn't found a deal at his asking price considering the fact that they werent going to pay him was not a best kept secret. Now obviously this can still go a few ways.... 0 claims and he becomes a free agent netting 0, 1 claim to another team netting 0, or a multiple claims that allows a window to make a deal.

Obviously I am guessing at what has happened since no one knows for sure. I just don't believe that there was zero market and think that the approach was a poor gamble regardless of the result.

[7Mo]

50 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Then he didnt bother to discuss a compromise with Villar because he was sure he was going to be able to deal him and that didn't work as he hasn't found a deal at his asking price considering the fact that they werent going to pay him was not a best kept secret. 

C'mon, you're just making stuff up now.

Why aren't 29 other GM's incompetent for not taking this overwhelmingly valuable asset?

[Roll Tide]

5 minutes ago, 7Mo said:

C'mon, you're just making stuff up now.

Why aren't 29 other GM's incompetent for not taking this overwhelmingly valuable asset?

The bolded part is being misinterpreted by you.

If the Orioles didn't want to go to arbitration with Villar they could've approached him about a compromise or extension. I think you would have heard rumors at very least from Roch about the subject if it happened.

I believe the conversation with the player did not happen because Elias believed he could get an offer that he thought was acceptable.

My point and everyone that has voiced concern over the way this deal was handled has stated trade him or extend him hoping for a better return later. Villar was statistically a very good player this year do you deny that?

You don't know what Elias was asking for or turned down anymore than I do.

Since the only deal made so far was Cashner I don't believe that you can blindly give Elias the benefit of the doubt in his ability to trade. He is indeed doing a job that he's never held before.

IMO and experience.... Trading is a Sales Skill and typically Statistic and Analytics geeks aren't very good sales people.

Obviously this post and the previous one are my opinions. Since they are simply that there is no need for me to make anything up.

 

Cheers!