Adam Jones signs 2-year deal with Orix Buffaloes

[Scalious]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

It doesn't exist for labor.  Did you not read my post. 

Anti trust lawsuits have not happend much since the 80's.

Thanks for the info. Was engaged in the 1 v 1 convo.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Scalious

[scOtt]

This thread has skewed completely off topic.

 

But I like it!

Carry on. Nothing to see here.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, atomic said:

A simple google search next time might be in order before you post a snooty post.

 

"This option was not available to the players in 1994-95. At that time, baseball's unique antitrust exemption meant that once the parties reached a bargaining impasse, the players' only choices were to strike or to operate under the owners' proposal. One provision of the 1996 CBA was an agreement that the owners and players would jointly ask Congress to eliminate baseball's special antitrust exemption with respect to labor matters. The result was the "Curt Flood Act of 1998," which for the first time gave members of the MLBPA the same legal rights enjoyed by their football and basketball counterparts. One of these rights is the opportunity to invoke the antitrust laws against anticompetitive conduct. Although the labor exemption to the antitrust laws allows multi-employer groups in the same industry to negotiate a single CBA covering all of their employees, the exemption applies only as long as a collective bargaining relationship exists. Once the workers decertify their union, each employer must negotiate individually with its employees and prospective employees."

   

Fair point.   I recall one of the sports’ player unions (NFL?)were threatening to decertify at one point.   But I don’t actually believe it’s in their interests to do so, or they would have done it.    

[atomic]

Just now, Frobby said:

Fair point.   I recall one of the sports’ player unions (NFL?)were threatening to decertify at one point.   But I don’t actually believe it’s in their interests to do so, or they would have done it.    

The NBA players decertified in 2011 and Sued the league for anti trust violations.  The owners quickly gave the players what they wanted.  And the union then reformed.  
 

 

[atomic]

Also in 2011 NFLPA and NHLPA made similar moves which forced the owners to give them what they requested.  
 

Without a union there is no salary cap, no luxury tax, no minimum salary, everyone is a free agent and there is no draft.  On negative side players would probably be without a retirement plan. The teams could not work together to set any benefits or salaries. 

[Satyr3206]

1 hour ago, atomic said:

Also in 2011 NFLPA and NHLPA made similar moves which forced the owners to give them what they requested.  
 

Without a union there is no salary cap, no luxury tax, no minimum salary, everyone is a free agent and there is no draft.  On negative side players would probably be without a retirement plan. The teams could not work together to set any benefits or salaries. 

That is my point. Let the free market set the pay scale. And watch the Owners flip out.

[Satyr3206]

I personally would use the decertificatoin of the MLBPA as a chip against them folding Minor League Teams. If ya want to play hardball. The Owners certainly are.

[DrungoHazewood]

13 hours ago, Satyr3206 said:

If Baseball, and for that matter all sports aren't competitive job markets then what is?

If McDonalds is making cash hand over fist in a location, Burger King and Arbys and Chick-fil-a are free to open up a restaurant right next door and do everything conceivable to take all of McDonalds' customers away. 

If the Yankees are making cash hand over fist in The Bronx I'm not sure that there's any power on earth that would allow someone else try to take a chunk out of that market.  The Yanks might actually form an army to defend their territory before they let a team into Brooklyn or Manhattan or New Jersey or anywhere else within a 100 mile radius.

MLB acts as a monopoly.  If you're a baseball player and you want to go somewhere else to play ball in the US... well, your option is submit to MLB's terms and conditions, or go play for $12,000 a year in the Atlantic League.  I guess you could move to Japan or Korea, if there are openings for a foreign player of your skills and abilities.  Imagine if the response to losing your job in the only company in the auto industry was "sucks to be you, but you could always go build cars in Japan or China or Mexico."  But in the auto industry there are about a dozen companies making cars in the US, all competing to out-do each other.

[DrungoHazewood]

12 hours ago, atomic said:

Also in 2011 NFLPA and NHLPA made similar moves which forced the owners to give them what they requested.  
 

Without a union there is no salary cap, no luxury tax, no minimum salary, everyone is a free agent and there is no draft.  On negative side players would probably be without a retirement plan. The teams could not work together to set any benefits or salaries. 

Don't the NFL and NHL have caps, luxury taxes, minimum salaries, everyone is not a free agent, there are drafts and retirement plans?  And teams certainly work together to set benefits and salaries.

[atomic]

29 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Don't the NFL and NHL have caps, luxury taxes, minimum salaries, everyone is not a free agent, there are drafts and retirement plans?  And teams certainly work together to set benefits and salaries.

Yeah after they decertified the leagues gave up more in negotiations to get unions to reform.  The leagues need unions and the unions know that.  Because without unions any thing coordinated by owners would break anti trust laws.

[scOtt]

3 hours ago, atomic said:

Yeah after they decertified the leagues gave up more in negotiations to get unions to reform.  The leagues need unions and the unions know that.  Because without unions any thing coordinated by owners would break anti trust laws.

I've had this problem with the ATE. For years even. I know it exists and all, but I didn't understand how it works exactly. You just explained it in a way I finally understand. Thank you sir!

[Satyr3206]

15 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

If McDonalds is making cash hand over fist in a location, Burger King and Arbys and Chick-fil-a are free to open up a restaurant right next door and do everything conceivable to take all of McDonalds' customers away. 

If the Yankees are making cash hand over fist in The Bronx I'm not sure that there's any power on earth that would allow someone else try to take a chunk out of that market.  The Yanks might actually form an army to defend their territory before they let a team into Brooklyn or Manhattan or New Jersey or anywhere else within a 100 mile radius.

MLB acts as a monopoly.  If you're a baseball player and you want to go somewhere else to play ball in the US... well, your option is submit to MLB's terms and conditions, or go play for $12,000 a year in the Atlantic League.  I guess you could move to Japan or Korea, if there are openings for a foreign player of your skills and abilities.  Imagine if the response to losing your job in the only company in the auto industry was "sucks to be you, but you could always go build cars in Japan or China or Mexico."  But in the auto industry there are about a dozen companies making cars in the US, all competing to out-do each other.

I'm not a big fan of monopolies. Or Unions. Take the Anti trust exemption away. Then decertify the MLBPA. Go to a complete free market system. That's what they want to do with the Minor League system. Fight them on what they say their terms are. I'd bet they would fold in quick order. You assume the monopoly is forever, it's not.

[Chavez Ravine]

On 12/24/2019 at 6:16 AM, atomic said:

Yeah after they decertified the leagues gave up more in negotiations to get unions to reform.  The leagues need unions and the unions know that.  Because without unions any thing coordinated by owners would break anti trust laws.

Yep. Most of the things that leagues are formed to do are anti-competitive and in violation of all the laws that exist to promote free markets, capitalism, etc.; since the Flood Act, that has included MLB. Collective bargaining provides a shield for all of the league stuff (i.e a draft, international allotments)  to happen. Threatening to lift the shield is a powerful chip to hold. But usually collective bargaining kinda works....until it doesn’t.

[Scalious]

Matt Moore and Justin Bour are following Jones over the ocean. 

[atomic]

I wonder why salaries are so low in Japan. They have good attendance and rich country.  Maybe the TV desks aren’t lucrative.  It would be interesting if they started signing star players in their prime from mlb.