Poll: Will baseball actually finish the season?

[Tony-OH]

35 minutes ago, Philip said:

Regarding news reports, I completely agree with Tony that politics Best left off the site. However, the plain fact is that politics is playing a huge role in treating this pandemic and it is almost impossible to talk about one without in some way mentioning the other.

Having said that, I would like to defend both @Tony-OH and @Camden_yardbird. The situation is so fluid and there is so much information, much of it contradictory, from legitimate sources, That it is not unreasonable for both people to be correct.

Whatever this isn’t about how many beds are being used or not being used it is about the upward trend of cases, which was exacerbated by the protests, and which is unpredictable and literally unstoppable, at this point, except by doing the very thing that Baseball renders impossible.

The fact that people can't help but get political on this stuff is why I want to limit the conversation about it. I know some people don't think that politics and sports need to be separate, that's their right, but it WILL ALWAYS be separate here at the Hangout.

[now]

Trying to steer past the political waters to address this poll's question... it seems a lot hinges on "testing positive" and "number of cases." But then there's the interpretation of how much actual risk that represents, right? (since "positive test" cases doesn't equal "symptomatic"). Does MLB have any discretion over that call or is it all on local/state/national health authorities? Or perhaps insurance policies and associated lawyers?

[hoosiers]

I think the games get played.  Most players who test positive could well be back in the lineup within two weeks.

A very large majority of folks who test positive have a mild experience.  It would be like an injury - next man up.

[interloper]

23 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Nope.  While I think we need something like baseball to pick us up I think far too many people assume that these things will go on without doing the (relatively not so) hard work of social distancing and wearing masks.

What was happening in NY at the beginning to the medical infrastructure, the pictures of over taxed and over worked hospital staff, is still happening, but in places like Houston and Arizona.  And we are very close to seeing some critical medical systems in large cities collapse.

A single player getting it would eliminate a quarter of their season (14 day quarentine in a 60bgame season played in 66 days).  The logistics of this just dont work out.

The fact that this got downvoted is disappointing. You're absolutely correct. The rest of the world is rebounding while the US is sliding right back to where we were 3 months ago. The numbers speak for themselves. The only reason the hospitals AREN'T overrun right now is because we DID quarantine for 3 months. Will that remain the case? I don't know - let's hope so! 

More Americans have died than both Iraq wars, the Afghanistan war, and the Vietnam War COMBINED. That's not politics, folks, that's just dead Americans. This is a serious thing.

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, interloper said:

The fact that this got downvoted is pretty weak. You're absolutely correct. The rest of the world is rebounding while the US is sliding right back to where we were 3 months ago. The numbers speak for themselves. 

More Americans have died than both Iraq wars, the Afghanistan war, and the Vietnam War COMBINED. 

So South America isn't part of the rest of the world?

If we are going to be worried about facts, shouldn't we be worried about all the facts?

Or am I nitpicking again by pointing out that an entire continent is still having issues?

I'm probably just nitpicking.

Who cares about South America anyway right?

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So South America isn't part of the rest of the world?

If we are going to be worried about facts, shouldn't we be worried about all the facts?

Or am I nitpicking again by pointing out that an entire continent is still having issues?

I'm probably just nitpicking.

Who cares about South America anyway right?

No, you're right and that's fair to mention. There are parts of the US that are as bad as Brazil right now and other parts of South America. I should have mentioned that when discussing "the world". The majority of the world is in better shape, was my point. Thanks for pointing it out. 

[atomic]

30 minutes ago, interloper said:

The fact that this got downvoted is pretty weak. You're absolutely correct. The rest of the world is rebounding while the US is sliding right back to where we were 3 months ago. The numbers speak for themselves. The only reason the hospitals AREN'T overrun right now is because we DID quarantine for 3 months. Will that remain the case? I don't know - let's hope so! 

More Americans have died than both Iraq wars, the Afghanistan war, and the Vietnam War COMBINED. That's not politics, folks, that's just dead Americans. This is a serious thing.

This is a lie.  It is estimate that over a million American Soldiers died from Agent exposure related cancers in Vietnam.  My dad served two tours over there and had multiple cancers from Agent Orange exposure and died from it. His military pension was tax free because of his cancers.  A few years before he died he had my sister search for his former Army buddies from his two tours in Vietnam.  And they all had died except one.  This is guys dying in their 50's and 60's from cancer.  The soldiers who died in Vietnam were mostly 18 to 21 age range.  Plus all the guys who lost limbs or otherwise permanently disabled. The median age people dying from covid is 80 years old. They had full lives and were in very poor health.   Please stop minimizing the deaths of our service men with this stuff. I read this everywhere and it makes me very angry. Most of the people dying from covid are very old and very sick. I find great offense to posts like these.  

Really you should think before you post. I am guessing you never served of had family members who served.  

[Frobby]

Honestly there is no way to discuss the thread topic without voicing your opinion on how bad the COVID epidemic is and how bad it will get.    I don’t really see that as a political discussion.    It becomes political only when you start voicing opinions of what the Government has done or should do about it.    I will stay away from any such discussion here.    

That said, it’s a fact that cases are spiking in Florida and Arizona, where a lot of these games apparently will be played.    Deaths are not spiking, at least not yet.     But there’s definitely evidence that hospitalizations are up in those places and that certain hospitals are reaching ICU capacity.    So, we’ll see how the situation looks in a few weeks.     A lot can change for better or worse in the 4-5 weeks between now and when baseball plans to reopen.   

I hope they are able to play their shortened season, but I’m somewhat pessimistic it will happen.   


 

[backwardsk]

24 minutes ago, atomic said:

This is a lie.  It is estimate that over a million American Soldiers died from Agent exposure related cancers in Vietnam.  My dad served two tours over there and had multiple cancers from Agent Orange exposure and died from it. His military pension was tax free because of his cancers.  A few years before he died he had my sister search for his former Army buddies from his two tours in Vietnam.  And they all had died except one.  This is guys dying in their 50's and 60's from cancer.  The soldiers who died in Vietnam were mostly 18 to 21 age range.  Plus all the guys who lost limbs or otherwise permanently disabled. The median age people dying from covid is 80 years old. They had full lives and were in very poor health.   Please stop minimizing the deaths of our service men with this stuff. I read this everywhere and it makes me very angry. Most of the people dying from covid are very old and very sick. I find great offense to posts like these.  

Really you should think before you post. I am guessing you never served of had family members who served.  

So 60k Americans under the age of 80 have died...so far.

[atomic]

2 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

So 60k Americans under the age of 80 have died...so far.

Really I think you should be banned for this.  

[backwardsk]

2 minutes ago, atomic said:

Really I think you should be banned for this.  

Why

[foxfield]

5 minutes ago, atomic said:

This is a lie.  It is estimate that over a million American Soldiers died from Agent exposure related cancers in Vietnam.  My dad served two tours over there and had multiple cancers from Agent Orange exposure and died from it. His military pension was tax free because of his cancers.  A few years before he died he had my sister search for his former Army buddies from his two tours in Vietnam.  And they all had died except one.  This is guys dying in their 50's and 60's from cancer.  The soldiers who died in Vietnam were mostly 18 to 21 age range.  Plus all the guys who lost limbs or otherwise permanently disabled. The median age people dying from covid is 80 years old. They had full lives and were in very poor health.   Please stop minimizing the deaths of our service men with this stuff. I read this everywhere and it makes me very angry. Most of the people dying from covid are very old and very sick. I find great offense to posts like these.  

Really you should think before you post. I am guessing you never served of had family members who served.  

A lie is told by someone who refuses to state the truth for the specific purpose of deceit.  We accuse people of lying for one of two reasons.  To let them know we know they are being dishonest and are calling them out for it.  Or the second and increasingly more common reason which is to argue that the "liar" cannot be trusted and therefore whatever he/she says is therefore irrelevant.

Personally, I try to assume positive intent, but I cannot believe that the purpose of this is to say that you think Interloper is intentionally being deceitful and dishonest.  His point was simply that what is going on is serious and the game of baseball may not be able to go on.  That is without question a debatable opinion and as I answered in this thread, I personally believe it's about 50 50 whether they play at all.  But a lie?  I think that is a stretch, and I believe you are smart enough to know that to be true.  At the same time your inclusion of statistics of post war service adds concrete matter to the view presented  by Interloper.  

My point is this...

In a time when everything is difficult to discuss intelligently without politics...cant we at least try to be civil in disagreeing and at least consider another point of view.  Aside from being against the rules here, another reason people cannot discuss politics is that those discussions seldom seek to change thought but rather to reject it outright.  I don't mean to take your post beginning with This is a lie as an example because we all do it too much.  

But I think we can, stay within the rules, and speak to these issues and how they affect baseball.  And I think we can do it without being political.  It's a fine line.  What the owners and the players are doing is similar to what we see in politics.  Both sides seem intent on destroying the other and neither seem to seek the good of the game.  We here, view these positions in similar fashion to how we see the rest of the world.  What I see as a baseball fan is that the game is suffering because of both sides.  Someone needs to lead and the answers are going to come from the middle.  Or else the two sides are going to destroy the game.

If I have crossed a line, I apologize.  Atomic, I also apologize for using your post as it could have been many.  But, I love this game, and I love this team.  We should all understand the importance of being civil here even when we disagree, in fact the different points of view are what make it such a great place.  In the meantime.  Thanks everyone for being here and.....let's play two!  

[interloper]

38 minutes ago, atomic said:

This is a lie.  It is estimate that over a million American Soldiers died from Agent exposure related cancers in Vietnam.  My dad served two tours over there and had multiple cancers from Agent Orange exposure and died from it. His military pension was tax free because of his cancers.  A few years before he died he had my sister search for his former Army buddies from his two tours in Vietnam.  And they all had died except one.  This is guys dying in their 50's and 60's from cancer.  The soldiers who died in Vietnam were mostly 18 to 21 age range.  Plus all the guys who lost limbs or otherwise permanently disabled. The median age people dying from covid is 80 years old. They had full lives and were in very poor health.   Please stop minimizing the deaths of our service men with this stuff. I read this everywhere and it makes me very angry. Most of the people dying from covid are very old and very sick. I find great offense to posts like these.  

Really you should think before you post. I am guessing you never served of had family members who served.  

Hey, look, you're right. I have never served. But my father and grandfather did. I don't think it's fair at all for you to assume I have had no family members that served (and fought). I have nothing but respect for those who served and who serve now. I am sorry to hear about your dad and others. 

Your point about Agent exposure is well-made and I've read up on it a bit since your post. 

My post was about recorded combat deaths, and I mean no disrespect to those who have died as a result of Agent exposure.

[milbest77]

I voted option 3. I think we’ll start seeing more and more players back out. Same with NBA. What if Lebron tests positive? Goodness gracious, talk about a PR nightmare for the NBA. 

[SteveA]

37 minutes ago, milbest77 said:

I voted option 3. I think we’ll start seeing more and more players back out. Same with NBA. What if Lebron tests positive? Goodness gracious, talk about a PR nightmare for the NBA. 

Why?  He might be out a few weeks.  Steph Curry missed over half the season with an injury.

Two ways it can become a REAL PR problem:

1) So many guys in a sport are testing positive and taking two weeks off to quarantine that many teams become shells of what they should be.

2) A player in a sport gets it and is one of the very very small % of healthy 20-40 year olds who has severe complications and goes on a respirator and dies.

Baseball survives despite the fact that in any given season about 1/10 of the top 100 pitcher's in the game are sitting out with Tommy John surgery.

If C19 adds another 10% that is out at any given time, I think we have a full season.  If it turns out to be 40 or 50% then that would be trouble.