The deadline is looming...Is Elias done?

[CarrRun49]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

Look ...I’m not trying to bash you but please try to offer something beyond a snarky remark. SG is hardly the voice of reason here and we certainly don’t need you stroking his ego. Which is big enough 

I am not going to keep repeating myself about Villar and provide you the stats I have in previous posts.  I simply agreed with his explanation.  No more, no less.  We don't agree and it is what it is.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

I’m not the only one here who said it. I’m not naming names but if you look back another poster or two that you respect said similar things. 
 

A player that you suspect a team will not make a contract to probably has very little value to a team trading for said player. That IMO is where the leverage was lost by Elias and the Orioles. 
 

Im not suggesting you buy the 4 WAR player .... I’m suggesting you get fair value for a guy that has been a 2 WAR player over the last 5 years that also includes a .1 war season . BTW, Villar played SS last night for the Blue Jays, as I suggested he wasn’t obtained to replace Biggio. He was brought in due to the lack of offense from their SS and 3B position. He also played more games at SS than at 2B for the Marlins 14/11.

 

 

Sure but it happens all the time (Teams knowing a team needs/wants to trade a player) and you don’t know what he was saying in private to teams either.

I just think it’s a weak excuse.  It’s just a case of no one really wanting him.  I think that’s what people can’t wrap their heads around.  They just assume that he had a big year, so everyone was going to line up for him.  
 

When you were barely getting any offers in the midst of that big year, that should have told you something then.

The return for him wasn’t going to be good.  It just wasn’t.  People need to get over that.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

A player that you suspect a team will not make a contract to probably has very little value to a team trading for said player. That IMO is where the leverage was lost by Elias and the Orioles. 

If Elias' biggest sin was overtly stating what most everyone had kind of suspected ("we might non-tender Villar") then that's pretty inconsequential in the greater scheme. 

The difference between Griffin Conine and Easton Lucas is that Conine has a 10-20% chance of being a decent major leaguer, while Lucas is less.  But there's limitless demand for lefties who can pitch a partial inning...

[Roll Tide]

6 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Sure but it happens all the time (Teams knowing a team needs/wants to trade a player) and you don’t know what he was saying in private to teams either.

I just think it’s a weak excuse.  It’s just a case of no one really wanting him.  I think that’s what people can’t wrap their heads around.  They just assume that he had a big year, so everyone was going to line up for him.  
 

When you were barely getting any offers in the midst of that big year, that should have told you something then.

The return for him wasn’t going to be good.  It just wasn’t.  People need to get over that.

So is the weak excuse where Elias wasn’t able to get more than a bag of balls equivalent but the Marlins GM was and it was only because the Blue Jays were stupid.... LOL  

[Roll Tide]

6 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

If Elias' biggest sin was overtly stating what most everyone had kind of suspected ("we might non-tender Villar") then that's pretty inconsequential in the greater scheme. 

The difference between Griffin Conine and Easton Lucas is that Conine has a 10-20% chance of being a decent major leaguer, while Lucas is less.  But there's limitless demand for lefties who can pitch a partial inning...

So the correct move would’ve been to tender him.the payroll was already absurdly low at 62 million or the adjusted number of 66. 
 

I don’t understand why so many of you buy the argument that Villar was a worthless pile of shite! 

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So the correct move would’ve been to tender him.the payroll was already absurdly low at 62 million or the adjusted number of 66. 
 

I don’t understand why so many of you buy the argument that Villar was a worthless pile of shite! 

First off no one is saying that.

Secondly the man keeps getting traded for light at best returns.  That tells us that the teams controlling him don't value in highly and neither does the market as a whole.

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

First off no one is saying that.

Secondly the man keeps getting traded for light at best returns.  That tells us that the teams controlling him don't value in highly and neither does the market as a whole.

It’s been insinuated here many times ....He had no value has been said over and over.

Maybe he has more value here ....but so be it.

The Point of the discussion is the comparison between Eason and Conine.

While Conine is not a great prospect he’s leaps and bounds better than Eason IMO

[Sports Guy]

22 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So is the weak excuse where Elias wasn’t able to get more than a bag of balls equivalent but the Marlins GM was and it was only because the Blue Jays were stupid.... LOL  

Conine isn't any kind of a prospect either.  He is basically nothing.

And the Jays are in a playoff race and Villar is owed very little money.

Those are differences from when the Os traded him.

 

[Sports Guy]

20 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So the correct move would’ve been to tender him.the payroll was already absurdly low at 62 million or the adjusted number of 66. 
 

I don’t understand why so many of you buy the argument that Villar was a worthless pile of shite! 

Ok...If that was the CORRECT move, how many more wins would we have with Villar vs our current arrangement of Iglesias and Alberto?

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

It’s been insinuated here many times ....He had no value has been said over and over.

Maybe he has more value here ....but so be it.

The Point of the discussion is the comparison between Eason and Conine.

While Conine is not a great prospect he’s leaps and bounds better than Eason IMO

Conine is more than just not a great prospect, he isn't a good prospect.  He's a long shot lottery ticket with a huge red flag attached.  No one should be upset that Conine isn't in their team's farm system.

[Roll Tide]

25 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Ok...If that was the CORRECT move, how many more wins would we have with Villar vs our current arrangement of Iglesias and Alberto?

So we don’t have a lead off hitter with Alberto batting first and the station to station approach. Villar was much more valuable as a lead off hitter. 
 

please don’t mention Mullins as he was a bust when the decision was made on Villar.

 

I personally think we would’ve been much better off with Villar, Alberto, and Iglesias. Ruiz is a terrible hitter outside an occasional home run. Plus, I’m fine with Iglesias playing SS but batting him 3rd is a laugher. His OPS is nearly 300 points higher than his career average of .695. Which is very unlikely to hold up.

 

 

[Roll Tide]

26 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Ok...If that was the CORRECT move, how many more wins would we have with Villar vs our current arrangement of Iglesias and Alberto?

As I mentioned Ruiz is the guy that would be parked at Bowie or not here.

You can’t say that Villar would’ve performed the same here as he did in Miami. Is it possible but it’s also very possible that he would’ve been more comfortable here.

All I know as he looked extremely confident here last season. I mentioned that his powers numbers aren’t there which I find interesting 

[Sports Guy]

Ok..so how many more wins do you think we would have right now?

[Roll Tide]

31 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Conine is more than just not a great prospect, he isn't a good prospect.  He's a long shot lottery ticket with a huge red flag attached.  No one should be upset that Conine isn't in their team's farm system.

Really .... in 2 seasons in the minors he’s .266/.348/.863. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Really .... in 2 seasons in the minors he’s .266/.348/.863. 

Yes, really. 

He's been age appropriate for his level, which means old for a prospect and his K rate is a huge issue.

If you are 21, in A ball, you can't be striking out 125 times in 80 games.