The deadline is looming...Is Elias done?

[Roll Tide]

9 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Ok..so how many more wins do you think we would have right now?

Is this a trick question ....it’s a season that’s 100 games short. We’ve only played 30ish games.

How many more wins would we have if they would’ve done the right thing and cleared Davis off the roster? 

[owknows]

Centuries later archaeologists find their desiccated remains... clutching a stat sheet, with margin notes lamenting the lost opportunity that was Villar.

[hoosiers]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

So the correct move would’ve been to tender him.the payroll was already absurdly low at 62 million or the adjusted number of 66. 
 

I don’t understand why so many of you buy the argument that Villar was a worthless pile of shite! 

What does the low payroll have to do with the decision to tender Villar or not?  It's not that we couldn't afford Villar, it that we determined he wasn't worth the $.  Our GM held a very public offering of Villar to the rest of baseball and one has to assume our GM took the best offer.  That was Villar's worth at that time.  Not complicated.

[hoosiers]

3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Is this a trick question ....it’s a season that’s 100 games short. We’ve only played 30ish games.

How many more wins would we have if they would’ve done the right thing and cleared Davis off the roster? 

Maybe you could add back Yastremski to our roster as well ....

And assume Bundy would have been retained.

We coulda been contenders!

[Sports Guy]

23 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Is this a trick question ....it’s a season that’s 100 games short. We’ve only played 30ish games.

How many more wins would we have if they would’ve done the right thing and cleared Davis off the roster? 

No, you said it’s the correct move to have kept him.

Im saying, for it to be the correct move, you should think we would have more wins then we do now.  I don’t care how many games we have played.  I’m asking you how much of a difference would he have made?

And btw, you are also lowering the defense at second (Alberto better there and third(Ruiz better then Alberto) by having him out there.  

 

[Roll Tide]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yes, really. 

He's been age appropriate for his level, which means old for a prospect and his K rate is a huge issue.

If you are 21, in A ball, you can't be striking out 125 times in 80 games.

None of his other seasons in the minors or college did he strikeout at anywhere near that rate. He had .946 OPS so he still produced. I agree that he will have to clean it up. But I have no reason to believe he won’t.

 

BTW ...according to BBREF he was 21 in A ball with and age diff of -.3 ... so let not pretend he was at an advanced age for the level 

[Roll Tide]

22 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

Maybe you could add back Yastremski to our roster as well ....

And assume Bundy would have been retained.

We coulda been contenders!

Never said that ...but I guess you could say Elias also screwed up on Yastrzemski as well. 
And I wasn’t crazy about the return for Bundy. I didn’t hate it. But I think we could’ve gotten a little more quality and a little less quantity 

[Roll Tide]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No, you said it’s the correct move to have kept him.

Im saying, for it to be the correct move, you should think we would have more wins then we do now.  I don’t care how many games we have played.  I’m asking you how much of a difference would he have made?

And btw, you are also lowering the defense at second (Alberto better there and third(Ruiz better then Alberto) by having him out there.  

 

Yes ... I did ...don’t care about wins. I said hanging on to Villar if you can’t get value on him. For me he made the team more entertaining to watch and I’m a paying customer whether it’s at the stadium or paying the cable bill.

I don’t care if we traded him if we could get a good return ...but you could argue he was our best offensive player last year.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

None of his other seasons in the minors or college did he strikeout at anywhere near that rate. He had .946 OPS so he still produced. I agree that he will have to clean it up. But I have no reason to believe he won’t.

 

BTW ...according to BBREF he was 21 in A ball with and age diff of -.3 ... so let not pretend he was at an advanced age for the level 

I specifically stated that he was age appropriate.  But do you want "prospects" playing at the league age or do you want them young for their level?  He also averaged over a strikeout a game at low A the year prior.

[hoosiers]

3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Never said that ...but I guess you could say Elias also screwed up on Yastrzemski as well. 
And I wasn’t crazy about the return for Bundy. I didn’t hate it. But I think we could’ve gotten a little more quality and a little less quantity 

I don't think so.  Not how these deals get done.  Look at the deals this past deadline.  How many Top 100 guys changed teams?  How many organizational to five guys changed teams?   You ask for higher quality prospects and sometimes the answer is a "Yes, ok, fine, will part with that guy" and most of the time it is "I can't give up these top guys, but you can take multiple guys outside of the top guys."  

P.S.  Elias did screw up Yaz.  Running a rebuild and gave up a prospect who has turned into a ballplayer.  It was a major under-estimation of a guy in our system who performed almost immediately at the major league level better than other "prospects" who were retained.  

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Yes ... I did ...don’t care about wins. I said hanging on to Villar if you can’t get value on him. For me he made the team more entertaining to watch and I’m a paying customer whether it’s at the stadium or paying the cable bill.

I don’t care if we traded him if we could get a good return ...but you could argue he was our best offensive player last year.

No, you can’t argue that he was our best offensive player.  Mancini was a top 30 hitter in all of MLB last year by almost every metric.

Thats fine..if you would like to watch Villar vs trading him in a dump, that’s perfectly fine.

But that’s far different than treating this like it’s a fact that Elias screwed up.  That’s what you are doing and its far from a fact.

[Roll Tide]

34 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I specifically stated that he was age appropriate.  But do you want "prospects" playing at the league age or do you want them young for their level?  He also averaged over a strikeout a game at low A the year prior.

Lucas played last in the rookie league at age 22. Probably worse than Conine right?

[Roll Tide]

34 minutes ago, hoosiers said:

I don't think so.  Not how these deals get done.  Look at the deals this past deadline.  How many Top 100 guys changed teams?  How many organizational to five guys changed teams?   You ask for higher quality prospects and sometimes the answer is a "Yes, ok, fine, will part with that guy" and most of the time it is "I can't give up these top guys, but you can take multiple guys outside of the top guys."  

P.S.  Elias did screw up Yaz.  Running a rebuild and gave up a prospect who has turned into a ballplayer.  It was a major under-estimation of a guy in our system who performed almost immediately at the major league level better than other "prospects" who were retained.  

As I said I would’ve held onto guys if I couldn’t get a return. I have no faith that saved money will be used later. 

[Roll Tide]

31 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No, you can’t argue that he was our best offensive player.  Mancini was a top 30 hitter in all of MLB last year by almost every metric.

Thats fine..if you would like to watch Villar vs trading him in a dump, that’s perfectly fine.

But that’s far different than treating this like it’s a fact that Elias screwed up.  That’s what you are doing and its far from a fact.

Yes Mancini was better by about 100 OPS....but Villar had 40 swipes and I like the gritty style of play.

 

We can agree to disagree on your last statement 

[Can_of_corn]

16 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Lucas played last in the rookie league at age 22. Probably worse than Conine right?

Sure?

But what difference if it makes if neither makes an impact at the ML level?