Fangraphs positional power rankings

[BohKnowsBmore]

3 hours ago, Philip said:

Yes I want to get rid of S&S Demolition crew. I don’t think they are placeholders, because they aren’t adequate. They have no upside. They’ve shown what they are behind the plate. Even if they improved on offense, and Sisco has a good eye and can draw a walk, that wouldn’t compensate for the defense. They offer only marginal offense( but slightly above league average) (1) but terrible defense, and we desperately need good catching skills. The emphasis at catcher is defense (2), and their slightly above average offense doesn’t compensate. We have better defenders, and I’d rather use them.

Regarding SS and 2B, I don’t really care about Galvis and Sanchez, I was actually surprised that they projected to be that bad, and I overreacted a bit. I thought they would be projected to produce better numbers. (3)

(1) The actual relevant comparison is how they compare to the average catcher's offense, not the league as a whole. .750 OPS from a catcher is FAR more valuable than .750 OPS from a COF/1B, for example.

(2) You say that, but why is it nor the emphasis at other up the middle positions like SS and 2B?

(3) You framed it around their compensation. What about their compensation makes you think they should be projected for better numbers (and that it's a disappointing level of production given the compensation)? They're being paid peanuts by MLB veteran standards (and barely more than league minimum or rookie standards).

[Philip]

55 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

(1) The actual relevant comparison is how they compare to the average catcher's offense, not the league as a whole. .750 OPS from a catcher is FAR more valuable than .750 OPS from a COF/1B, for example.

(2) You say that, but why is it nor the emphasis at other up the middle positions like SS and 2B?

(3) You framed it around their compensation. What about their compensation makes you think they should be projected for better numbers (and that it's a disappointing level of production given the compensation)? They're being paid peanuts by MLB veteran standards (and barely more than league minimum or rookie standards).

I understand that their offense is slightly above average relative to the league average at catcher, but my contention is that it is not enough better to compensate for the defense.

I am equally interested in defense everywhere, but catcher defense is most important for the sake of our pitchers Because of game calling and framing skills, neither of which is very good in our guys. That’s why I was disappointed in the projections for our second baseman and shortstop, I was hoping they would be better.

I don’t care about pay. The glove first catchers we have would also be making league minimum, and would be offering better defense, and Severino I think it’s making I think twice as much as league minimum.

You misunderstood my use of the word “compensation.”

What I meant was that their slightly above average offense would not compensate for their bad defense.

[BohKnowsBmore]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

I understand that their offense is slightly above average relative to the league average at catcher, but my contention is that it is not enough better to compensate for the defense.

I am equally interested in defense everywhere, but catcher defense is most important for the sake of our pitchers Because of game calling and framing skills, neither of which is very good in our guys. That’s why I was disappointed in the projections for our second baseman and shortstop, I was hoping they would be better.

I don’t care about pay. The glove first catchers we have would also be making league minimum, and would be offering better defense, and Severino I think it’s making I think twice as much as league minimum.

You misunderstood my use of the word “compensation.”

What I meant was that their slightly above average offense would not compensate for their bad defense.

I didn’t misunderstand anything. You absolutely brought up compensation (as in payment), earlier in this thread:

 

On 3/24/2021 at 1:25 PM, Philip said:

Sanchez and Galvis? Didn’t we spend 6 figures on each?

 

On 3/24/2021 at 2:36 PM, Philip said:

That’s a wonderful way of skirting my question which was, “didn’t we spend six figures on each of them?”

If we spent 1,000,000+ on each guy and we’re not getting even a single WAR out of either, the alternatives must’ve been really really bad

 

[Philip]

45 minutes ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

I didn’t misunderstand anything. You absolutely brought up compensation (as in payment), earlier in this thread:

 

 

 

Yes that is correct but I mentioned to pay not in connection to catching, but to second base in short. And as I said earlier, I overreacted to the projection of them each being worth next to nothing in terms of WAR. I don’t think they are going to be bad players, I was just surprised if their projection was so low. Regarding catcher, I said nothing about money, I only said they both suck.

[BohKnowsBmore]

On 3/24/2021 at 12:03 PM, Frobby said:

C 27th, 0.9 rWAR

1B 23rd, 0.6 rWAR

2B 28th, 0.5 rWAR

3B 23rd, 1.5 rWAR

SS 28th. 0.8 rWAR

This link takes you to the SS ratings and in that article there are links to the other positions.   They haven’t done OF, P or DH yet    I expect we’ll do better in the OF, and maybe DH.

 

Back on topic:

 

LF 17th 1.4 WAR

CF 20th, 1.6 WAR

RF 13th 1.7 WAR

 

This is actually pretty good considering the relative youth / inexperience in the OF and the nature of these projections

[DrinkinWithFermi]

19 hours ago, Philip said:

They have no upside.

Chance Sisco just turned 26 years old a month ago and was the 61st overall pick in his draft class, slashed .292/.388/.530 in his last stint at AAA in 2019, and he has demonstrated very solid on-base skills so far in his MLB career. He may not ever be an elite starting catcher, especially on the defensive side of things, but saying he has no upside whatsoever is a bit hyperbolic, don't you think?

[Philip]

Just now, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Chance Sisco just turned 26 years old a month ago and was the 61st overall pick in his draft class, slashed .292/.388/.530 in his last stint at AAA in 2019, and he has demonstrated very solid on-base skills so far in his MLB career. He may not ever be an elite starting catcher, especially on the defensive side of things, but saying he has no upside whatsoever is a bit hyperbolic, don't you think?

You haven’t been watching him play. He has a pretty good eye and can draw a walk but also Ks at a career 33+% rate. His offense is better than league average for catcher, we agree on that, but his defense cancels that out and more. Do you think his defense will suddenly improve to acceptable? And remember catchers have to do more than just catch the ball and throw it. For some reason Baseball Savant only lists two categories for him, framing( 19th percentile) and spring speed(6th percentile)

What we need from catchers right now is excellent support of the pitchers, and neither of our catchers does that.

I don’t think it is hyperbole to say that he is not What we need at catcher, and it is not pessimistic to suggest that he will never meaningfully improve. He might, I am perfectly willing to admit that, but I don’t think he will and at this time I would rather have a solid defender.

[NCRaven]

Are we really arguing about guys destined to be Rutschman's backup.  I worry more about how Henderson is doing more than Galvis; how Adam Hall is doing more than Sanchez; and how Westburg is doing more than Franco.  And definitely how Adley's doing more than Sisco or Severino.

And, if I'm going to watch players on the 2021 Orioles closely, it will be guys that we're counting on being starters in the future like Mountcastle, Hays, Mullins and Santander.  Or how Diaz and Kjerstad do in the minors.

[Just Regular]

Fangraphs says we have surpassed the Astros in at least one unit at the Major League level - well done, Mike Elias!

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2021-positional-power-rankings-bullpen-no-16-30/

The Dillon Tate write-up is Glass Half Full enough I will be approximately stunned if we demote him:

Keep an eye on Dillon Tate. The former top five pick had a velo uptick last year, changed his delivery/release point, and was altering his spot on the rubber depending on hitters’ handedness. 28-year-old lefty Paul Fry also had a significant velocity spike last year, sitting closer to 93 than 91, and Fry was already pretty effective at the lower velocity. Both of these guys have a chance to break out in a more meaningful and obvious way over the course of a longer season.

 

[Redskins Rick]

On 3/26/2021 at 10:46 AM, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Chance Sisco just turned 26 years old a month ago and was the 61st overall pick in his draft class, slashed .292/.388/.530 in his last stint at AAA in 2019, and he has demonstrated very solid on-base skills so far in his MLB career. He may not ever be an elite starting catcher, especially on the defensive side of things, but saying he has no upside whatsoever is a bit hyperbolic, don't you think?

Is Sisco even an average catcher behind the plate. At this point, he is basic backup at best.

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

Is Sisco even an average catcher behind the plate. At this point, he is basic backup at best.

No, he is not an average player behind the plate.   He’s probably bottom 20% among major leaguers in my opinion, and possibly lower.   His bat needs to be pretty good to make up for that.   The last two years he’s been a decent hitter thanks to a good OBP largely driven by a very high walk rate.   But honestly, I’d want to see more bat from him in order for him to stick in the majors long term.   I do think that’s possible based on his MiL track record.   He’s only had 525 PA in the majors so there’s still a pretty good possibility of improvement.  But it’s not guaranteed.  I’d certainly be happy to give it another season to find out.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

No, he is not an average player behind the plate.   He’s probably bottom 20% among major leaguers in my opinion, and possibly lower.   His bat needs to be pretty good to make up for that.   The last two years he’s been a decent hitter thanks to a good OBP largely driven by a very high walk rate.   But honestly, I’d want to see more bat from him in order for him to stick in the majors long term.   I do think that’s possible based on his MiL track record.   He’s only had 525 PA in the majors so there’s still a pretty good possibility of improvement.  But it’s not guaranteed.  I’d certainly be happy to give it another season to find out.

In our current situation, while waiting on Adley, it would be dumb not to give him the majority of the C at bats.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

In our current situation, while waiting on Adley, it would be dumb not to give him the majority of the C at bats.

You mean waiting on Elias.

[Redskins Rick]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You mean waiting on Elias.

Maybe Elias forgot to turn the phones back on from how his predecessor left them?

 

[NCRaven]

There's nothing uglier than a horse corpse after Corn is done flogging it.