Valaika DFA. Mateo replaces him

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

57 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don’t put Pop and Yaz in the same category at all.  Absolutely nobody thought Yaz was a serious prospect.  He’d been left unprotected in the Rule 5 draft multiple times and nobody claimed him.    I don’t think all the high tech equipment and analytics in the world would have forecast what Yaz has done, and Elias had very little time to evaluate him.   

Pop is a different story.   IMO, Elias knew that Pop was more talented than the Mattsons of the world, and he was under no delusion that Pop wasn’t healthy.   But I think he just believed that no other team was going to select a guy coming off TJ surgery who barely had pitched in AA and missed almost the whole 2019 season.   Well, he was wrong about that, and paid the price.    It may also be that the O’s aren’t crazy about Pop’s delivery and think it will lead to inconsistency or other injuries, so they were willing to take what they thought was a small risk that he’d be chosen.   Either way, I think Elias has to wear that one.   
 

The Giants clearly thought he was a prospect worth trading for…and if he had little time to evaluate him, why not do just that-evaluate him by letting him play?

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

The Giants clearly thought he was a prospect worth trading for…and if he had little time to evaluate him, why not do just that-evaluate him by letting him play?

You do realize that at the time the Giants were decimated by injuries to their outfield and needed depth at AAA?

I'd be careful before I heap too much praise on the Giants, they got lucky.

[Camden_yardbird]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

Gausman had some serious struggles but I don’t know that I’d call him a “scrap heap” pickup.   The Giants paid him $9,000,000 (expected salary before the season was shortened) to come there last year.    Obviously he outperformed that and then the Giants gave him a QO, which has worked out well for both the team and Gausman, who will cash in big time if he remains healthy the rest of the season.   

Were Orioles fans, we don't get to have nice things and our ownership are the worst owners outside Pittsburgh.  But I assure you a $9 million/ 1 year deal, or $6 million/1 year deal (DiScalfani) are scrap heap deals.  These are not guys you are signing to be "key cogs" on your team.  They are guys you are taking a chance on and hoping they contribute.

The Orioles "take a chance guys" are 1 year $2 to $4 million players, but for large market teams $9 million is a scrap heap, take a chance and see what it gets you investment. 

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

Mateo looked pretty darn good tonight! 3rd fastest player in baseball. Again, quality pickup. 

[LA2]

7 hours ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Mateo looked pretty darn good tonight! 3rd fastest player in baseball. Again, quality pickup. 

As Jorge Mateo approached the speed of light, space-time began to curve and compress, decreasing the linear distance between the bases. When he pulled up satisfied with a signature triple, he was startled by how much the 3rd-base coach had aged since the rocket's launch over the Keirmaier horizon--and his dear teammates back home in the dugout even moreso.

There was, of course, no question as to whose frame of reference, shared by the dugout, seats, concession stands, and rest rooms alike, was the inertial one and could be counted on to transact more beer. The dilemma that the federation and players' union faced was how to shrink the duration of games and the season's length to a point where players' careers could last more than a year before they retired without a catastrophic loss in revenue from broadcast rights and ticket, concessions, and other sales.

The ingenious solution was to move in the opposite direction--especially surprising after the recent consensus that the deceleration of the game predicted by the Big Bang, aka Home Run, theory was not, in fact, its natural state: the National Pasttime was actually accelerating along with other galaxies, such as Football and Basketball, once one discounted the gravitational force of commercial breaks. To put it concisely, the new set of rules banned running, ensuring that everyone was in the same region of space-time. Players were now only allowed to walk or crawl, even when in pursuit of balls with an exit velocity of over 100 mph.

Although baseball purists railed against such consequences as the marginalization of the stolen base, sliding, and infield hits, it was deemed that these were more than compensated for by an upsurge in the number of extra-base hits and a dramatic drop in injuries. Fielders and hitters alike made sure to keep their gait well below what soon became misleadingly known as the Mateo Line--one had only to run at the pace of, say, Bartolo Colon or even Matt Wieters to be immediatedly flagged.

Thus was the loss of the younger generation of fans precipitated nearly three decades before climate change brought an end to all outdoor sports.

[glenn__davis]

7 hours ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

Mateo looked pretty darn good tonight! 3rd fastest player in baseball. Again, quality pickup. 

Speed is fun to watch. He also dropped what was frankly a pretty routine line drive that helped the Rays take the lead. A MLB player needs to make that play. 

 

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

33 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Speed is fun to watch. He also dropped what was frankly a pretty routine line drive that helped the Rays take the lead. A MLB player needs to make that play. 

 

Thx, was at dinner and honestly didn’t watch just saw the highlights.

[Roll Tide]

18 hours ago, BohKnowsBmore said:

Maybe, maybe not. He is a guy who could be something in the future, though.

Almost no chance for either guy. Last year’s Valaika is better than Mateo will ever be 

[wildcard]

54 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Speed is fun to watch. He also dropped what was frankly a pretty routine line drive that helped the Rays take the lead. A MLB player needs to make that play. 

 

Mateo is probably not a 3rd baseman.  Not just from last night but from his minor  league numbers.  He has a better chance to a be a 2B.

[Frobby]

8 hours ago, LA2 said:

As Jorge Mateo approached the speed of light, space-time began to curve and compress, decreasing the linear distance between the bases. When he pulled up satisfied with a signature triple, he was startled by how much the 3rd-base coach had aged since the rocket's launch over the Keirmaier horizon--and his dear teammates back home in the dugout even moreso.

This was one of the funniest, cleverest posts ever written on the OH, and could only be written by someone with a pretty good understanding of the theory of relativity.    Kudos to you, that was awesome.   I only quoted one paragraph to save space on the time-space continuum.  

[Jammer7]

20 hours ago, NelsonCruuuuuz said:

. I am not anti-Elias, just grounded in reality. When DD was GM, everyone defended his every move. Now they think he is the devil. Personally, I thought DD was more good than bad (and was against the Davis signing). Elias is not a savior and has made some really questionable decisions. The draft being the big one. Not giving Yaz 30 days to see what he had is also being moronic. He comes from a scouting background, I would think he would find a nugget or two from the waiver wire, no? DD certainty did.

 

And it is funny, you are starting a fight with me over my post on here that is CHEERING this claim. I am actually applauding this pickup. 

 

 

I’m not starting a fight with you. I rarely reply to you, but a high percentage of your posts are the same tune. We know you don’t like Mike Elias’ decisions on many things. Even when you like the move, and as you said, you do, you have to throw in there something negative about the GM. 

We can look into any GM around the league and point to mistakes after three years on the job. I think he has made incredible strides here, overall. And you and I disagree on most things you write about as mistakes, not all. All opinions are welcome here. Maybe just present them in a more mature argument and people will respect you more here. Someone here told me the same thing many years ago, and I have tried to make that happen. 

[Jammer7]

1 hour ago, glenn__davis said:

Speed is fun to watch. He also dropped what was frankly a pretty routine line drive that helped the Rays take the lead. A MLB player needs to make that play. 

 

I agree that he needs to make that play. I think that is just a lack of time there, though. He has been in the middle infield almost exclusively until he hit MLB. And then, mostly in the OF for San Diego. He needs work there, certainly, but I give him a pass on that one. Those liners hook, and if you’re not used to that it can be tough. Coaches cannot really replicate that in practice with a fungo. 

Let’s see what he does at 2B and SS. Most of the scouting reports out there on Mateo are really really good. Some are critical of him being too aggressive and then too passive at other times. All of them cite plus plus athleticism and a plus arm. I liked what I saw of the swing last night.

We didn’t lose the game because of that play. Paul Fry’s lack of command, and Connor Greene’s lack of command cost us that one.

[Jammer7]

22 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

While that is true if we expand to player generally "picked off the scrap heap" which I would define as 1) waiver claims, 2) low profile free agent acquitions 3) players acquired for cash considerations or off of DFAs, I dont think Elias has shown any real skill in making these types of pickups.

And before we go and say that even those players rarely amount to much.  The Giants are the best team in the league, made up significantly by players like this.

Mike Yastremski, Donovan Solano, Alex Dickerson, Wilmer Flores, Darin Ruf, Thairo Estrada, Anthony DiScalfani, Mike Tuchman, Jose Alvarez, Kevin Gausman

Its a skill that good GMs have and not one that I think we can say Elias has shown particular skill in.  It is especially important on a rebuilding and low payroll team that has the time and spots to let those players play.  Players like that are found value, costing little and returning competitive value or trade value.

Absolutely true. A really good post, sir. Yaz and Pop are mistakes that Elias has to wear. Elias has brought in lower budget acquisitions and most have not worked out. Iglesias and Galvis did. Franco, Matt Harvey and Felix Hernandez were worth the shot. LeBlanc and Milone were low risk/cost guys that provided some value. But generally, Elias has a bunch of young players to evaluate at the ML level to see what he has moving forward. You do not want to bring in a bunch of older veterans above the ML minimum to clog things up. 

Guys like Ramon Urias, Hanser Alberto, Jorge Lopez, Shaun Anderson, Marcos Diplan, Pedro Severino, Jorge Mateo, Kelvin Gutierrez and Pat Valaika were all significant prospects at one point. Some were Top 100, or at least in their previous teams’ top 30 prospects. These are guys that were worth the shot. And many here would have been critical if they were not selected on waivers. 

Most of Elias’ trades have been focused on minor league talent acquisition, like you wrote. Early returns on Bundy seem to be very positive. The Cobb trade, probably about even at the moment. The Givens trade is a win. The Miguel Castro trade looks pretty good at the moment.  The Iglesias trade looks good at the moment. 

The releases of Hanser Alberto and Renato Nunez were also intelligent moves despite being criticized widely by many here. Too flawed and too expensive. They had their opportunities, as have many others, and they proved they were not keepers. Shaun Anderson recently showed that. But these are guys that need more than just one appearance to show what they are and for coaches to get a feel for them. The Fulmer kid was another example. A high draft pick, talented arm, and just not worthy in their estimation after getting hands on. 

San Francisco was fortunate that Yaz worked out, though. If they knew something we did not, they could have had him in rule 5 for the previous three years. I also think they are helped out by the fact that it is San Francisco. Put that team is a small ballpark in the AL East and I think they are nowhere near the record they have now. 

The Gausman signing was very astute. Again, I think he is helped out by the big parks in the NL West, aside from Colorado of course. I have watched a few games he pitched out there and he still gives up a lot of fly balls that would have easily been out at Camden Yards. In San Francisco and San Diego, and Dodger Stadium at night, a fly ball is just that.

I am no apologist. I do choose to give Elias the benefit of the doubt. I try to look at the entire picture, and the factors that go into each decision. I find Elias to be very intelligent, well-prepared and a good communicator. He has been about as transparent and genuine as he could be since arriving. He said we were going to lose a lot. He said we were going to try to develop and evaluate the guys in our system, while looking for low cost talent to acquire to do the same. He said he wanted to build a long term winner through an elite talent pipeline. He said he would cut payroll and reallocate those resources into technology, development personnel, and various other infrastructure investments. He said he would tear down and restructure every facet of the organization. He has done what he said he would, so far. He needs to prove he can make the next steps to turn this around into a winning team. By the end of 2022, we should have a much clearer idea whether or not he is on target. That, to me, is the big picture. Not the W/L record in 2021. Not how sexy the trades look to fans a minute after they happen.

Let us not forget that losing bring higher picks. That was the plan all along, at least it sure seems to be the case of tanking intentionally. Provide a minimal MLB product, but bad enough to lose a lot and draft high. I do not like it at all. But that is the shortest road to turning it around completely. Elias is committed to his model, and he will make mistakes. Let’s see what he does when he is supposed to win. Then, I will break out the pitch fork. 

[Tony-OH]

19 hours ago, Frobby said:

I don’t put Pop and Yaz in the same category at all.  Absolutely nobody thought Yaz was a serious prospect.  He’d been left unprotected in the Rule 5 draft multiple times and nobody claimed him.    I don’t think all the high tech equipment and analytics in the world would have forecast what Yaz has done, and Elias had very little time to evaluate him.   

Pop is a different story.   IMO, Elias knew that Pop was more talented than the Mattsons of the world, and he was under no delusion that Pop wasn’t healthy.   But I think he just believed that no other team was going to select a guy coming off TJ surgery who barely had pitched in AA and missed almost the whole 2019 season.   Well, he was wrong about that, and paid the price.    It may also be that the O’s aren’t crazy about Pop’s delivery and think it will lead to inconsistency or other injuries, so they were willing to take what they thought was a small risk that he’d be chosen.   Either way, I think Elias has to wear that one.   
 

Yet the Giants traded for him and shortly thereafter he became an impact player. I really never looked that hard at Yaz either though I think one year we put him at the back end of our prospect list. He looked like a 4th outfielder type who stagnated at Norfolk. But the Orioles thought enough of him to bring him to spring training then without giving him many looks, dumped him for no reason since he wasn't on the 40-man despite the fact they had a need in left field.

The facts are that the Orioles evaluated Yaz and said he was nothing and then evaluated Dwight Smith Jr. and said this is a guy we should look at and play even though a Divisional rival had decided they had seen enough. So people can give Elias a pass all they want, but as the man in charge of the organization and making the final calls, he dumped Yaz for nothing when he didn't have to. He could have put him back in AAA but traded him for an organizational filler pitcher. 

No matter how anyone spins it, that's the facts. 

As for Pop, he's similar in that Elias lost him when he didn't have to. If the Orioles evaluation system and people decided Mattson is more valuable than Pop, then they need to be relooked at or adjusted. I've seen both on video and there is no way Mattson should have been protected over Pop. It was an unforced error by Elias.

So yes, the situations are different, but the result are the same. While Yaz might not be any good by the time the Orioles are good in 2-3 years, he could have been traded for players that could be.

 

 

[Tony-OH]

18 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

You do realize that at the time the Giants were decimated by injuries to their outfield and needed depth at AAA?

I'd be careful before I heap too much praise on the Giants, they got lucky.

So the Giants got lucky and Elias isn't at fault. Got it. Must be why the Giants compete year and year out and the Orioles have become an embarrassment at the major league level now.