Getting the roster from 27 to 38

[bobmc]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

It's only been three years, we have to give him time.  

On a Sunday am, it's time for a rousing "AMEN"!  Or as the Terps used to chant when they were relevant - AAAmen!  AAAmen! AAmen Amen Amen!  Can I hear you brothers and sisters?  

 

What would Ted Lasso say?????

[interloper]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

You are a little quick to use the word stupid for my taste, but it’s certainly a highly questionable decision.   There may be things that went into it that we don’t know about.   I have to agree that based on what we know there are several players (Martin included) I would have taken off the roster before Harvey.  And I do agree that even good GMs sometimes make bad decisions.   Every one of them.  

The reason Harvey was taken off before other, seemingly more deserving players is simply that those other players are healthy and usable in games. They don't want to get caught keeping a guy they can't use and scrambling to find a bullpen arm or wishing they had used that spot to protect a prospect that got taken in the Rule 5. 

What it says to me is Harvey was always going to come off, so they did it earlier to protect themselves by (for the moment) keeping healthy guys first. Some of those guys will likely come off too down the road but at least they are protecting themselves by having guys that can take the field. 

It doesn't matter that Harvey was DFA before them because they already knew they didn't want him. That speaks volumes. They know something.

I don't think we have to say "great job Elias" but we certainly have to say "he must know something" and just be patient. 

[ChosenOne21]

If we can figure out on this message board that Hunter Harvey has more upside than Richie Martin, I'm sure Elias can figure it out, too. There has to be more going on here

[Can_of_corn]

10 minutes ago, interloper said:

The reason Harvey was taken off before other, seemingly more deserving players is simply that those other players are healthy and usable in games. They don't want to get caught keeping a guy they can't use and scrambling to find a bullpen arm or wishing they had used that spot to protect a prospect that got taken in the Rule 5. 

What it says to me is Harvey was always going to come off, so they did it earlier to protect themselves by (for the moment) keeping healthy guys first. Some of those guys will likely come off too down the road but at least they are protecting themselves by having guys that can take the field. 

It doesn't matter that Harvey was DFA before them because they already knew they didn't want him. That speaks volumes. They know something.

I don't think we have to say "great job Elias" but we certainly have to say "he must know something" and just be patient. 

You say that like Richie Martin didn't go on the 60 day IL in both 2020 and 2021.

[interloper]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

You say that like Richie Martin didn't go on the 60 day IL in both 2020 and 2021.

Freak injuries.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, interloper said:

Freak injuries.

Wrist fractures can be a big deal for a baseball player.  Ask Steve Pearce.

Richie has managed to fracture both of his.

I don't think you can use health as an excuse to keep Martin over Harvey.

 

[Sports Guy]

Healthy and usable.  That’s what we are going for now? 
 

Availability is an underrated aspect of an athlete but there are plenty of guys on the roster that I don’t want to ever use because they are terrible.

Its like saying a guy is versatile but he really is nothing more than a statue at several positions.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Healthy and usable.  That’s what we are going for now? 
 

Availability is an underrated aspect of an athlete but there are plenty of guys on the roster that I don’t want to ever use because they are terrible.

Its like saying a guy is versatile but he really is nothing more than a statue at several positions.

Like I said, Martin doesn't even have a history of being healthy and usable.

Unless of course you just want to purposefully ignore multiple 60 day IL stints.

[interloper]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Wrist fractures can be a big deal for a baseball player.  Ask Steve Pearce.

Richie has managed to fracture both of his.

I don't think you can use health as an excuse to keep Martin over Harvey.

 

I think the difference is he can play shortstop. But I think there's a very good chance he's on waivers as we speak. I don't expect him to remain on the 40 for long. In the end they are both going to be DFA, the order doesn't really matter.

We're not going to agree here so it doesn't seem like a good use of our time to go back and forth. But my take is that Harvey is a useless player to carry on a roster, or at least that's what Elias and Co and 27 other teams have determined. Even when healthy he's not very good. I'll take the guy who is usable and not clogging up my 40 man with 10 day stints that go on for a month before needing to move to 60. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

I think the difference is he can play shortstop. But I think there's a very good chance he's on waivers as we speak. I don't expect him to remain on the 40 for long. In the end they are both going to be DFA, the order doesn't really matter.

We're not going to agree here so it doesn't seem like a good use of our time to go back and forth. But my take is that Harvey is a useless player to carry on a roster, or at least that's what Elias and Co and 27 other teams have determined. Even when healthy he's not very good. I'll take the guy who is usable and not clogging up my 40 man with 10 day stints that go on for a month before needing to move to 60. 

Hes a below average SS.  
 

Harvey has way more upside than Martin does..even if he does never realize it.

[Can_of_corn]

21 minutes ago, interloper said:

I think the difference is he can play shortstop. But I think there's a very good chance he's on waivers as we speak. I don't expect him to remain on the 40 for long. In the end they are both going to be DFA, the order doesn't really matter.

We're not going to agree here so it doesn't seem like a good use of our time to go back and forth. But my take is that Harvey is a useless player to carry on a roster, or at least that's what Elias and Co and 27 other teams have determined. Even when healthy he's not very good. I'll take the guy who is usable and not clogging up my 40 man with 10 day stints that go on for a month before needing to move to 60. 

I think that theoretically Harvey could warrant a spot on a team's 40 man.  I do not think the same of Martin.

I'm not worried about losing Harvey but I'm not sure it's indicative of best practices.

[ScGO's]

2022 would have been Harvey's 9th year in the system. He averaged about 35 innings a year and he was starting pitcher prospect until half way through 2019.

He never pitched particularly well above A ball except for 6 big league innings in 2019. Hunter Harvey had very little impact on the O's future at this point. Many of the players on the 40 man beyond mountcastle, means, and Mullins have little to no impact on our future right now.  A few names need to be added and tested this year. More talent will force their way into the 40 man roster next year too.  Harvey is old news at this point. Injured or not, Elias had 3 years to evaluate Harvey, so I trust his judgement

 

 

 

 

 

[interloper]

30 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Hes a below average SS.  
 

Harvey has way more upside than Martin does..even if he does never realize it.

What upside? He can't play baseball! I think if the Os didn't have so many guys they wanted to protect AND make rule 5 picks AND make waiver claims AND sign a couple free agents, maybe Harvey sticks. But he was never going to survive all of those "add to roster" scenarios I just mentioned. And neither will Martin or Mattson or Krehbiel, etc.

[Sports Guy]

11 minutes ago, interloper said:

What upside? He can't play baseball! I think if the Os didn't have so many guys they wanted to protect AND make rule 5 picks AND make waiver claims AND sign a couple free agents, maybe Harvey sticks. But he was never going to survive all of those "add to roster" scenarios I just mentioned. And neither will Martin or Mattson or Krehbiel, etc.

Have they made those waiver claims yet? Have they signed anyone yet?  Is the rule 5 draft tomorrow?  
 

There is no rule that says if you think you may eventually cut an player, that you have to do it by November 6.

And btw, while they may have intentions that those things will occur, they don’t know who or if.  They are assumptions, not certainties.

[Philip]

Half the guys in this chat should be members of Congress, because you’re saying the same things over and over and not listening to each other.

Mike made a mistake letting Pop go, he’s made lots of mistakes, so what? He’s not Jesus and everybody else makes mistakes. And so far, his mistakes haven’t turned out to be significant.

Whether the Harvey decision was a mistake or not certainly remains to be seen. But that it was reasonable is obvious.
Regarding Martin and the gang, if they’re going to come off eventually, it doesn’t really matter when.