O's, Royals / Tigers Difference

[oriolediehard]

In the last few years, the Royals, Tigers and the O's were all bad teams 100 or more loss seasons. Why has the Tigers, / the Royals, even the Marlins improved so much based on wins and the O's stay the same?  Also why is Brandon Hyde on his 4th year when he has not lost less than 100? 

[Jammer7]

Can you blame Brandon Hyde for subpar players being subpar? IDK.

Part of the equation that makes them all different is that the Orioles play in the AL East. I firmly believe the Orioles will win at least 10 more games next year just by playing the teams in the AL East only 14 times per year instead of 19.

It isn’t just that the other four teams all won 91+ games in 2021, it is that the Orioles get worn down facing these great teams 76 times per season. They use more pitching and just get beat down, mentally.

I firmly believe the Orioles would have won at least 65 games last year in the AL Central, and in any other division. Not that 65 wins is a great season, but it’s better than 52. lol

The other reasons are many, but Elias’ staff had a bigger job than the other teams’ front offices. The Orioles were decades behind in many aspects. By the end of this season, if the Orioles are not leaps and bounds better, at least more interesting and entertaining, with young talent everywhere, then I will take issue. 

[Tony-OH]

I really can't argue with anything you say in this thread Jammer, but at the end of the day, you have to win at the major league level to keep your job. At least that's the way it's suppose to be. 

While we don't know how much input he has in his lineups, pitching usage, and roster makeup, at some point you have to start winning on the field. 

I think Hyde is a good baseball man in a bad situation, but if he's the one evaluating guys like Stewart, Odor and Fry and thinking they are major league players, then I have concerns.

[Can_of_corn]

19 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

Can you blame Brandon Hyde for subpar players being subpar? IDK.

Part of the equation that makes them all different is that the Orioles play in the AL East. I firmly believe the Orioles will win at least 10 more games next year just by playing the teams in the AL East only 14 times per year instead of 19.

It isn’t just that the other four teams all won 91+ games in 2021, it is that the Orioles get worn down facing these great teams 76 times per season. They use more pitching and just get beat down, mentally.

I firmly believe the Orioles would have won at least 65 games last year in the AL Central, and in any other division. Not that 65 wins is a great season, but it’s better than 52. lol

The other reasons are many, but Elias’ staff had a bigger job than the other teams’ front offices. The Orioles were decades behind in many aspects. By the end of this season, if the Orioles are not leaps and bounds better, at least more interesting and entertaining, with young talent everywhere, then I will take issue. 

Thirteen more wins?  Very unlikely.

[Jammer7]

20 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Thirteen more wins?  Very unlikely.

Maybe, and it is anecdotal, not factual, but playing in a meat grinder all season takes a toll on the entire team. Mentally and physically. Especially the pitching.

I look at the bottom two or three teams in other divisions and I believe we beat them much more often then we do our current division.

Don’t get me wrong, I want to stay in the AL East. Just saying what I believe the differences are.

[waroriole]

I mean Hyde didn’t lose 100 in 2020…..

Hyde doesn’t seem like a bad manager or anything, but I just struggle to see what value he brings. He clearly hasn’t elevated the team’s performance. I was hoping they’d let him go last offseason and give Buck Britton a shot. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Just now, waroriole said:

I mean Hyde didn’t lose 100 in 2020…..

Hyde doesn’t seem like a bad manager or anything, but I just struggle to see what value he brings. He clearly hasn’t elevated the team’s performance. I was hoping they’d let him go last offseason and give Buck Britton a shot. 

It may very well be Elias wants another year for the team to improve before throwing Buck Britton into the meat grinder. I have to agree with CoC that this is another throw away season.

I don't think Hyde is a bad manager (who could tell with the players he has been given), but I agree with you on seeing what value Hyde brings to the team. 

[waroriole]

7 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

It may very well be Elias wants another year for the team to improve before throwing Buck Britton into the meat grinder. I have to agree with CoC that this is another throw away season.

I don't think Hyde is a bad manager (who could tell with the players he has been given), but I agree with you on seeing what value Hyde brings to the team. 

Yeah it’s definitely a throw away season.
 

I get that a total tear down is necessary and will take many years. The problem I have is communication. Elias and his team have really not done that at all. There’s no appeal to fans to say this is where we’re at, this is how long it should take to get there etc. Just offseason after offseason of bare minimum signings and making no effort to give us at least a watchable ML product. There’s just no excuse for Watkins or A Wells to be making a start the first time through the starting rotation. I’m disgusted that they’re not trying to put a ML product on the field for the 4th straight year. 

[deward]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

I really can't argue with anything you say in this thread Jammer, but at the end of the day, you have to win at the major league level to keep your job. At least that's the way it's suppose to be. 

While we don't know how much input he has in his lineups, pitching usage, and roster makeup, at some point you have to start winning on the field. 

I think Hyde is a good baseball man in a bad situation, but if he's the one evaluating guys like Stewart, Odor and Fry and thinking they are major league players, then I have concerns.

I'm assuming that Hyde isn't being judged on wins and losses to this point, given that his bosses have been actively disinterested in winning major league games since they came on board. If Elias keeps punting on the season, what's Hyde supposed to do? It seems difficult to me to come up with any strong takeaways on Hyde's performance under the circumstances, or to work out an opinion on how he might do when they actually want him to win games. He might be great, might be terrible, probably somewhere in between? Who knows? 

I do agree that it would be very interesting to know how much input he has been allowed into the roster, or how comfortable he's been with the ongoing tanking. It's not exactly helping him build much of a resume for another job.

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, deward said:

I'm assuming that Hyde isn't being judged on wins and losses to this point, given that his bosses have been actively disinterested in winning major league games since they came on board. If Elias keeps punting on the season, what's Hyde supposed to do? It seems difficult to me to come up with any strong takeaways on Hyde's performance under the circumstances, or to work out an opinion on how he might do when they actually want him to win games. He might be great, might be terrible, probably somewhere in between? Who knows? 

I do agree that it would be very interesting to know how much input he has been allowed into the roster, or how comfortable he's been with the ongoing tanking. It's not exactly helping him build much of a resume for another job.

Oh I agree about Hyde that he hasn't been judged on wins and losses so far and that Elias has gave him crap to work with. Heck, he's getting Spenser Watkins to start the 5th game of the year. Are you telling me Elias had all offseason to pick a plan for this year and starting Watkins in the 5th game of the year was part of the options? 

 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

14 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Yeah it’s definitely a throw away season.
 

I get that a total tear down is necessary and will take many years. The problem I have is communication. Elias and his team have really not done that at all. There’s no appeal to fans to say this is where we’re at, this is how long it should take to get there etc. Just offseason after offseason of bare minimum signings and making no effort to give us at least a watchable ML product. There’s just no excuse for Watkins or A Wells to be making a start the first time through the starting rotation. I’m disgusted that they’re not trying to put a ML product on the field for the 4th straight year. 

You hit the nail on the head. Communication to the fanbase has been an issue under the ownership of the Angelos family. I was hoping with Elias that would change, but it hasn't for the most part.

This is going to be yet another season where the Orioles try to get through 162 games with mostly AAAA level ballplayers. And the big free agent offseason acquisition is Jordan Lyles. 

Yes the rebuild could fail, but there isn't even a clear timeline on when things are going to turnaround. The best thing about this season will be seeing Rutschman and hopefully Grayson Rodriguez play at OPACY. And maybe we get to see DL Hall and some other prospects make their MLB debut.

Seeing some of the talented prospects rise up and play will give the fans some hope that in the next few years the Orioles will finally be competitive again. 

[deward]

14 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Yeah it’s definitely a throw away season.
 

I get that a total tear down is necessary and will take many years. The problem I have is communication. Elias and his team have really not done that at all. There’s no appeal to fans to say this is where we’re at, this is how long it should take to get there etc. Just offseason after offseason of bare minimum signings and making no effort to give us at least a watchable ML product. There’s just no excuse for Watkins or A Wells to be making a start the first time through the starting rotation. I’m disgusted that they’re not trying to put a ML product on the field for the 4th straight year. 

Agreed. I'm sure Elias doesn't want to be pinned down (or held accountable) to a particular timetable, but the complete neglect of the fan base throughout this process is really inexcusable. It's hard to figure out how much of that is him and how much of that is ownership (see the MASN travel debacle). 

I would quibble a bit with whether or not it was necessary for the ML team to be this horrid for "many" years. It seems to me like more effort could have been put into making the team watchable after the first couple of years without interfering with the rebuild. I would also argue that Elias' seat should start getting pretty warm if the team continues to look hopelessly outclassed going into next year. Assuming ownership cares.

[deward]

11 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Oh I agree about Hyde that he hasn't been judged on wins and losses so far and that Elias has gave him crap to work with. Heck, he's getting Spenser Watkins to start the 5th game of the year. Are you telling me Elias had all offseason to pick a plan for this year and starting Watkins in the 5th game of the year was part of the options? 

 

I haven't seen any reason to believe that Elias cared.

[spiritof66]

10 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

You hit the nail on the head. Communication to the fanbase has been an issue under the ownership of the Angelos family. I was hoping with Elias that would change, but it hasn't for the most part.

This is going to be yet another season where the Orioles try to get through 162 games with mostly AAAA level ballplayers. And the big free agent offseason acquisition is Jordan Lyles. 

Yes the rebuild could fail, but there isn't even a clear timeline on when things are going to turnaround. The best thing about this season will be seeing Rutschman and hopefully Grayson Rodriguez play at OPACY. And maybe we get to see DL Hall and some other prospects make their MLB debut.

Seeing some of the talented prospects rise up and play will give the fans some hope that in the next few years the Orioles will finally be competitive again. 

I wonder whether bringing up Rutschman, G-Rod and a couple others will have that effect. A lot of very good players take most or all of a season, sometimes even longer, to find their footing in the major leagues. I think it's quite possible that this season with the Orioles Rutschman is strong defensively and shows some power, but hits for a low average and strikes out a lot, and G-Rod looks tantalizingly good in some of his outings but gets knocked around in others. If that sort of things happens, I wonder whether casual O's fans, having expected these guys to be instant stars, will drift away even further.

Just looking for stuff to worry about, I guess, and there's plenty of material on this team. 

[vab]

Somebody here said - "I refuse to get mad at water for being wet". It seems like that is what we are doing when we complain about how bad this team is. Elias gave ownership a plan, ownership signed on for it and he's carrying it out. The Orioles actually are a minor league team talent-wise with a few major league players sprinkled about that is playing in, probably,  the toughest division in american major league sports. That has been a recipe for some very, very ugly results and will continue to be. Could they focus more on the major league roster with some low/mid level free agents and win a few more games? I suppose but when it comes to trying to really compete in this division it's going to come down to developing the farm system and a pipeline to latin talent. It appears from the expert rankings this is happening but it takes 4-5 years just to get these kids to the majors let alone to have them take their lumps and get truly established in the league. And even this has been delayed by missing an entire minor league season two years ago. I know it's hard but they have to stay the course now.