Means to 60-day, O's option Wells not Lakins, purchase Diplan from Norfolk

[Frobby]

17 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

Has Elias publicly said that that the team is trying to win more games this year?  I agree that the early roster management doesn't appear that way.  Watkins is kind of the bellwether there for me.  

Seems to me like 2022 has been earmarked as more of the same, with the exception that we'll start to see some actual prospects trickling in soon.

He said he expected to win more games this year.  He didn’t say they were trying to.   

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I will give credit when credit is due, I like Elias from the perspective of having built a really great system and organization.  I know some of the pieces were already here when he got here and Adley was the overall #1 pick no brainer but still, he's done a great job.  The Dominican facility, analytics, etc...I like all of that, it's all fantastic.

But that doesn't absolve him from any criticism about how he's handling the roster.  I'm with Tony on this, it's getting absurd.  There's no reason why Bradish shouldn't be up and getting a start tomorrow.

In regards to Means, I think we should prepare to see him sometime next year.

I still can’t believe that people are totally fine with this approach for 2022.  It really is dumbfounding to me that we have fans fully behind the idea of not caring about wins in 2022.

Now, people push back on this because of the wording and they try to dress it up to sound better but a shiny turd is still a turd.  
 

I get that we should see more prospects this year (in theory) but that’s not the point.  You could have those guys AND other better players around them to teach them, to win with them, etc…but yet a 45M payroll(where 25% of it is for players no longer here) and still too many players who shouldn’t be here is just wrong imo.
 

[NelsonCruuuuuz]

I dread agreeing with Sports Guy, but spot on. A veteran pitcher like Archer or similar would have gone along way, not just for performance but for mentoring. I think his offseason choices were derelict of duty, absolutely sickening.

His choice of Colton over Lawlar is insanity. Kerjstad over Lacy, mind boggling. His players overall are good but that first round…(except Adley). If he doesn’t take Jones this year..

And the Matt Harvey signing? Not a good look. 

Also when you are the #1 farm system, maybe leverage that for guys you perceive as weak to acquire talent (minor trades). Haven’t seen any of that. 

Blowing it up is relatively easy, but not seeing any promising signs from the next steps of the rebuild. 
 

 

 

[seak05]

17 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I still can’t believe that people are totally fine with this approach for 2022.  It really is dumbfounding to me that we have fans fully behind the idea of not caring about wins in 2022.

Now, people push back on this because of the wording and they try to dress it up to sound better but a shiny turd is still a turd.  
 

I get that we should see more prospects this year (in theory) but that’s not the point.  You could have those guys AND other better players around them to teach them, to win with them, etc…but yet a 45M payroll(where 25% of it is for players no longer here) and still too many players who shouldn’t be here is just wrong imo.
 

I think it's a matter of objective. I think this year is for seeing what the Orioles have with the group that they have that is all mid-20's. If you bring in older players, it reduces playing time. Maybe Matteo is a full time ML SS (I doubt it), but you don't know unless he plays. Diplan is part of that group, so is A. Wells, Akin, even a Hays. You bring in two veteran SP (they did sign Lyles) to go with Means, you only have two openings in the rotation coming out of spring and Zimmerman, T. Wells, eventually Bradish, Rodriguez, and Hall all of whom they want to look at as SP for two maybe three spots. Now, if they don't bring in free agents this coming off-season, I'll be over it. 

As to Bradish, I am assuming they are holding his debut for a home game, I'm guessing next homestand. I also predict home debuts for Adley and Rodriguez. The Orioles aren't pushing for the play-offs, and bringing up prospects for home games makes marketing sense (this is especially true of Grayson and Adley)

Edited April 18, 2022 by seak05

[Moose Milligan]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I still can’t believe that people are totally fine with this approach for 2022.  It really is dumbfounding to me that we have fans fully behind the idea of not caring about wins in 2022.

Now, people push back on this because of the wording and they try to dress it up to sound better but a shiny turd is still a turd.  
 

I get that we should see more prospects this year (in theory) but that’s not the point.  You could have those guys AND other better players around them to teach them, to win with them, etc…but yet a 45M payroll(where 25% of it is for players no longer here) and still too many players who shouldn’t be here is just wrong imo.
 

I'll say I don't care about the wins when it comes to things like how AR, G-Rod and others guys that have been identified as key pieces are producing.  I want to see AR be a top 3 ROTY candidate, I want to see G-Rod look like a TOR starter.  And if Stowers and Hall come up, I want to see them contribute right away.

I know if that happens and if Mullins hits like he did last year or comes close to it...same with Mountcastle and Urias, they'll win some games.  

The wins do matter to a certain extent, I would prefer to see this group not lose 100 games this year.  I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not sure what a good, solid win total from this group should look like after AR, G-Rod, Stowers and Bradish are up.  

Maybe for me, it's just exactly that...avoiding 100 losses. 

Anyway, we agree...we could have these guys and better players around them but Elias punted on that this past offseason which was pathetic.

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, seak05 said:

I think it's a matter of objective. I think this year is for seeing what the Orioles have with the group that they have that is all mid-20's. If you bring in older players, it reduces playing time. Maybe Matteo is a full time ML SS (I doubt it), but you don't know unless he plays. Diplan is part of that group, so is Wells, Akin, even a Hays. Now, if they don't bring in free agents this coming off-season, I'll be over it. 

As to Bradish, I am assuming they are holding his debut for a home game, I'm guessing next homestand. I also predict home debuts for Adley and Rodriguez. The Orioles aren't pushing for the play-offs, and bringing up prospects for home games makes marketing sense (this is especially true of Grayson and Adley)

You could still get looks for those guys with a rotation of Ed-Rod and Kluber.  

Everyone understands wanting to get looks for the younger guys but that's no reason to have a rotation like we currently do.  Had they gone into the season with a 1, 2, 3 of Means, Ed-Rod and Kluber, that still gives room for Bradish to come up at some point, Rodriguez too.  

 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, seak05 said:

I think it's a matter of objective. I think this year is for seeing what the Orioles have with the group that they have that is all mid-20's. If you bring in older players, it reduces playing time. Maybe Matteo is a full time ML SS (I doubt it), but you don't know unless he plays. Diplan is part of that group, so is A. Wells, Akin, even a Hays. You bring in two veteran SP (they did sign Lyles) to go with Means, you only have two openings in the rotation coming out of spring and Zimmerman, T. Wells, eventually Bradish, Rodriguez, and Hall all of whom they want to look at as SP for two maybe three spots. Now, if they don't bring in free agents this coming off-season, I'll be over it. 

As to Bradish, I am assuming they are holding his debut for a home game, I'm guessing next homestand. I also predict home debuts for Adley and Rodriguez. The Orioles aren't pushing for the play-offs, and bringing up prospects for home games makes marketing sense (this is especially true of Grayson and Adley)

Yea, it’s just wrong to say you can’t upgrade the team and give the young players a chance.  Os fans are so obsessed with the idea that the 5% chance of happening is worth winning 55 games over fielding an actual watchable product.  

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'll say I don't care about the wins when it comes to things like how AR, G-Rod and others guys that have been identified as key pieces are producing.  I want to see AR be a top 3 ROTY candidate, I want to see G-Rod look like a TOR starter.  And if Stowers and Hall come up, I want to see them contribute right away.

I know if that happens and if Mullins hits like he did last year or comes close to it...same with Mountcastle and Urias, they'll win some games.  

The wins do matter to a certain extent, I would prefer to see this group not lose 100 games this year.  I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not sure what a good, solid win total from this group should look like after AR, G-Rod, Stowers and Bradish are up.  

Maybe for me, it's just exactly that...avoiding 100 losses. 

Anyway, we agree...we could have these guys and better players around them but Elias punted on that this past offseason which was pathetic.

It’s not as much about the number of wins but the quality of the product.  The idea that people think 55 wins is the same as 70-75 wins is just dumb.

Now, I agree that if the team is built like they were in the 2000s and you had no MiL system to build with and you were blocking/trading younger players for scrubs that winning 75 games is meaningless.  But that’s obviously not what is happening here, so there is no need to even put those things in the same category.

[Aristotelian]

30 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

I think this is just Wells emptied his tank and we're maximizing the roster spot tonight.

If Tampa has taught us anything, it is that your pitching staff is like seven keepers and seven other guys you stream based on matchups and freshness.

Bonus points if "Norfolk Tide" Alex Wells is in Oakland right now in case some reliever throws 33 pitches tonight and has a sore arm tomorrow.

Exactly, Wells is a taxi guy and will probably be back up. Wells, Lakins, and Diplan all have options so they are going to be shuttled back and forth with all three getting chances. Of the three I agree Wells probably has the most potential to turn into something, but no so much so that he should have a permanent spot at this time. 

 

[seak05]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

You could still get looks for those guys with a rotation of Ed-Rod and Kluber.  

Everyone understands wanting to get looks for the younger guys but that's no reason to have a rotation like we currently do.  Had they gone into the season with a 1, 2, 3 of Means, Ed-Rod and Kluber, that still gives room for Bradish to come up at some point, Rodriguez too.  

 

I mean, but you really can't? Or you can see Bradish and G-Rod, but not Zimmerman and T. Wells who have both shown promise, and Hall. Starts are really a zero sum game. If you want to look at 5-6 guys as SP, you can't have a rotation with several already set pieces (obviously they also weren't counting on a season long injury for Means, but that's why you generally want 6 SP). 

Also I do not understand the Kluber love, he hasn't pitched even 100 innings since 2018...that's not really a guy you bring in to eat innings. And he's not old (for a ML pitcher)

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

You could still get looks for those guys with a rotation of Ed-Rod and Kluber.  

Everyone understands wanting to get looks for the younger guys but that's no reason to have a rotation like we currently do.  Had they gone into the season with a 1, 2, 3 of Means, Ed-Rod and Kluber, that still gives room for Bradish to come up at some point, Rodriguez too.  

 

Even when the Orioles are in "win now" mode, I am unconvinced they will spend the money to sign pitchers like Ed-Rod and Kluber. But, yeah besides the money spent there isn't any reason why Elias couldn't have upgraded the starting rotation and also give prospects a chance to pitch.

Right now we're getting none of the above. Tomorrow would be a good opportunity to call up Bradish and have him make his first start in a pitcher friendly ballpark at Oakland. 

[glenn__davis]

46 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

We can only hope.  

Barring injury, I think we can all agree that there are two guys that we should 100% see up this year:

1.  Adley 

2.  G-Rod

Who are the rest that you guys feel have to get up here this year?  Bradish.  I'm assuming Stowers at some point.  I'd like to say DL Hall but I'm betting there's a strict innings limit on him.

I'd like to see, as you said, "actual prospects" come up but I can see Adley, G-Rod, Bradish and Stowers being the only "actual prospects" that come up this year.  I mean, if Elias is dicking around with Lakins and Diplan and signing Matt Harvey to a MiL deal, it kind of gives some insight as to where his head is at right now.  Granted, that could change later this summer but I get the feeling that we're just going to have to suck it up and realize that Elias is going to promote guys at a slow, annoying, deliberate pace.  

Yeah, I think Bradish is pretty much a lock as well.  If Stowers hits the way he has so far (in a VERY small SSS) then he's a lock as well.

I of course think DL Hall should also be up here but they've made it clear that's not happening soon.  If Westburg kills it he might get a cup of coffee but doubtful.  Possibly Terrin Vavra.

But honestly, even if it's just those 4, at least that's something.  Real, actual prospects as opposed to sacrificial lambs.

[scbalt52]

6 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Even when the Orioles are in "win now" mode, I am unconvinced they will spend the money to sign pitchers like Ed-Rod and Kluber. But, yeah besides the money spent there isn't any reason why Elias couldn't have upgraded the starting rotation and also give prospects a chance to pitch.

Right now we're getting none of the above. Tomorrow would be a good opportunity to call up Bradish and have him make his first start in a pitcher friendly ballpark at Oakland. 

Yes but now Bradish just pitched yesterday so there isn't any chance of that.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

Just now, scbalt52 said:

Yes but now Bradish just pitched yesterday so there isn't any chance of that.

I know that's out the window, but maybe the next homestand will provide an opportunity to call up Bradish. 

I'm curious to see how Akin would do if given the start Tuesday night and if he can avoid reverting back to his 2021 form as a starting pitcher. 

[wildcard]

22 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

You could still get looks for those guys with a rotation of Ed-Rod and Kluber.  

Everyone understands wanting to get looks for the younger guys but that's no reason to have a rotation like we currently do.  Had they gone into the season with a 1, 2, 3 of Means, Ed-Rod and Kluber, that still gives room for Bradish to come up at some point, Rodriguez too.  

 

Lyles, T Wells and Zimmerman looked good vs the Yankees.  Add Grayson and Bradish in two to three weeks and the O's have a pretty good rotation even without Means.