2023 Rotation

[Il BuonO]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

So you don’t think they keep Lyles? I think he’s a good #3 or #4. And his deal isn’t hateful. 

They overpaid. The deal is only palatable because he’s been slightly below average. I’ll take the upside of Hall over Jordan Lyles every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[Il BuonO]

1 hour ago, nvpacchi said:

I'm saying it IS encouraging that he has pitched without any health injuries and a career high in innings.

Still you have to bake in some level of risk - with any pitcher - especially one that had an arm injury.

Thanks for clarifying.

[Sports Guy]

Saying you can’t see how Hall makes this rotation tells me you have zero eye for talent, have no understanding of stats and stuff and just aren’t paying attention.

It doesn’t mean he can’t bomb.  In fact, it’s more likely he ends up a reliever or nothing than he winds up Blake Snell (essentially a right handed AJ Burnett) or better.  

That said, the talent is immense.  The ceiling is higher than Grayson.  

[Roll Tide]

8 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

They overpaid. The deal is only palatable because he’s been slightly below average. I’ll take the upside of Hall over Jordan Lyles every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

So they probably aren’t competing with Hall in the rotation before he’s read. He averaged less than 4 innings in the minors this year. That’s 3 at the majors especially with the control issues. And he will destroy the pen unless they are using someone else to piggyback 

Edited August 16, 2022 by Roll Tide

[Roll Tide]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

By improving himself?

Here’s a dilemma: let’s say you know Hall is going to struggle for two years (say, 5.50 - 6.50 ERA and 4ish IP/Start), and hurt your chances of making the postseason, but if you stick with him, by year 3 he’ll start to turn into something between Erik Bedard and Sandy Koufax. Do you grin and bear it?

Fixed it for you…he’s average less than 4 innings per start (20 starts 77 innings). I’d look at his pitch counts before arguing that they were holding his innings down.
 

 

There is no guarantee he’s ever as good as Bedard. His success is predicated on his control. I’m not saying he can’t be developed but I’d insist he be dominant and give me 6 innings per start in AAA. He can do that by cutting down on the walks.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Roll Tide

[Il BuonO]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

So they probably aren’t competing with Hall in the rotation before he’s read. He averaged less than 4 innings in the minors this year. That’s 3 at the majors especially with the control issues.

As previously stated by @Frobby, if he improves won’t he be ready? Did Hall refuse you an autograph or something? The biggest hurdle for him this year was staying healthy. His stuff is electric. Refining that to make him a ML pitcher is what lies ahead.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So they probably aren’t competing with Hall in the rotation before he’s read. He averaged less than 4 innings in the minors this year. That’s 3 at the majors especially with the control issues. And he will destroy the pen unless they are using someone else to piggyback 

He averaged that because that’s what they wanted!  Because they were bringing him along slowly.  Because they were building him up.  
 

Do you not pay attention to things?  Do you not see how the Orioles are using him and did use him this year?

Yes, he had starts cut short because of his command and control but overall, his innings are where THEY want them to be.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Sports Guy

[OriolesMagic83]

Going into 2023 w/o major improvements in the starting rotation could work in the regular season.  It could also blow up in the O's faces.  Are the O's really going to be able to match up against a team in the playoffs like the Astros with Verlander, Urquidy and Valdez. 

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

As previously stated by @Frobby, if he improves won’t he be ready? Did Hall refuse you an autograph or something? The biggest hurdle for him this year was staying healthy. His stuff is electric. Refining that to make him a ML pitcher is what lies ahead.

No …don’t care about autographs. Never saw him pitch before that start. But, I can read a stat line and see where a guy is and isn’t doing well. Strike outs are great but walks, hits, and runs are a problem at the rate he’s allowed them in the minors. I’d make him dominate in the minors.

[Roll Tide]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

He averaged that because that’s what they wanted!  Because they were bringing him along slowly.  Because they were building him up.  
 

Do you not pay attention to things?  Do you not see how the Orioles are using him and did use him this year?

So genius, what were his pitch counts per start? Did his pitch counts cause him control issues and walking. and a near 5 ERA when he should be dominant against lesser competition And a Quit trying to throw slights!

Edited August 16, 2022 by Roll Tide

[sportsfan8703]

20 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

They overpaid. The deal is only palatable because he’s been slightly below average. I’ll take the upside of Hall over Jordan Lyles every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Hope you’re willing to eat a 20 loss season from Hall if he starts 35. He’s 2-6 in AAA. As of now, Hall is a reliever. I like Hall, but he needs to learn how to get AAA hitters out let alone MLB. As a starter. 

[7Mo]

4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

No …don’t care about autographs. Never saw him pitch before that start. But, I can read a stat line and see where a guy is and isn’t doing well. Strike outs are great but walks, hits, and runs are a problem at the rate he’s allowed them in the minors. I’d make him dominate in the minors.

Would it matter to you if the coaching staff believed he would progress more/learn more/improve more... pitching with the big club?

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

So genius, what were his pitch counts per start? Did his pitch counts cause him control issues and walking. Quit trying to throw slights!

You can do that research yourself.  His last few starts he was pushing 100 pitches.  
 

As I said, his control was an issue at times..no one is denying that but you are being completely dishonest by quoting his IP without the context in which he pitched them.  It’s like when you brought up how he hasn’t gone deep in games since the break while also failing to mention they planned on him going 1 inning in his first start after the break.

[Il BuonO]

Just now, Roll Tide said:

There is no guarantee he’s ever as good as Bedard. His success is predicated on his control. I’m not saying he can’t be developed but I’d insist he be dominant and give me 6 innings per start in AAA. He can do that by cutting down on the walks.

His success isn’t predicated on his control, it’s on him getting outs. Will better command assist in that goal? Absolutely, but his performance wasn’t as awful as you make out and he’ll get better. Again, staying healthy for this season was the priority. So far, so good. Everything else is gravy.

[cnmilton]

With the Os payroll as low as it is, it would be really cool if they REALLY went for it and offered DeGrom the Scherzer contract (assuming DeGrom opts out); say like 3 years/135 million. Also, hopefully the Os can also trade for a young controllable starter with high upside from Miami. Combine those guys with GRod/Hall/T. Wells/Kramer/etc... think that would have a chance for success. Even with a DeGrom signing, payroll should still be around 100 million.