2023 Rotation

[seak05]

Mullins alone doesn't get you Lopez, and leaves the Orioles without a plus def CF (unless you plan on starting McKenna), and Mullins has more years of control. My dream scenario would be Rodon, but I think Noah Syndergaard is probably a good realistic option, and I expect that he'd be better next year, with another year under his belt. 

Rotation to start the year 

FA

Wells

Grayson

2 of Hall/Kremer/Bradish/ keeping in mind lefties will be especially valuable in Camden Yards

Means comes back mid-summer 

[Roll Tide]

9 minutes ago, seak05 said:

Mullins alone doesn't get you Lopez, and leaves the Orioles without a plus def CF (unless you plan on starting McKenna), and Mullins has more years of control. My dream scenario would be Rodon, but I think Noah Syndergaard is probably a good realistic option, and I expect that he'd be better next year, with another year under his belt. 

Rotation to start the year 

FA

Wells

Grayson

2 of Hall/Kremer/Bradish/ keeping in mind lefties will be especially valuable in Camden Yards

Means comes back mid-summer 

So you don’t think they keep Lyles? I think he’s a good #3 or #4. And his deal isn’t hateful. 

[Roll Tide]

10 minutes ago, seak05 said:

Mullins alone doesn't get you Lopez, and leaves the Orioles without a plus def CF (unless you plan on starting McKenna), and Mullins has more years of control. My dream scenario would be Rodon, but I think Noah Syndergaard is probably a good realistic option, and I expect that he'd be better next year, with another year under his belt. 

Rotation to start the year 

FA

Wells

Grayson

2 of Hall/Kremer/Bradish/ keeping in mind lefties will be especially valuable in Camden Yards

Means comes back mid-summer 

I just can’t see how Hall makes an improved rotation. 

[seak05]

5 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So you don’t think they keep Lyles? I think he’s a good #3 or #4. And his deal isn’t hateful. 

His deal is fine, but I think the Orioles have several cheaper options for back end starters. I'd prefer they take the Lyles money and put it towards what they'll need to sign a #1/#2 type

If you want to sign both Syndergaard and Lyles instead, you could talk me into it

[OriolesMagic83]

Lyles, Wells, and to a lesser extent Kremer have looked like dependable starters this year.  I'm not willing to depend on Voth when less than 2 months ago he was waiver wire material.  If the O's don't bring back Lyles, they need to find 3 starters.  1 of those starters can be Grayson.  Another, imo, should be an above average starter, a #3 or even #2 starter.  That will either require a huge FA contract (by Oriole standards) or a major trade involving top prospects.  I feel that the O's can fill another spot with one of Hall, Watkins, Bradish, Voth, Zimmermann, etc.  It might seem the O's will have to many starters, but look at the top playoff teams like the Mets and Dodgers.  They both go 8+ deep in starters and have both had to use that depth, especially the Mets.

I really like Bassitt.  He has been really impressive for the Mets, and might be more of a #3 starter.  I don't trust Snydergaard to stay healthy.  You are getting Thor w/ him anyway.  You are getting a guy who throw 92 mph fastballs.  Manaea looks intriguing too. 

Would Bassitt and Manaea require 3 year deals.

I wonder if Elias will take a stab a signing Verlander.  That would obviously take major commitment from ownership. 

[nvpacchi]

1 hour ago, Il BuonO said:

So, the guy who’s pitched effectively WITHOUT any setbacks isn’t encouraging? 

Got it.

I'm saying it IS encouraging that he has pitched without any health injuries and a career high in innings.

Still you have to bake in some level of risk - with any pitcher - especially one that had an arm injury.

[Roll Tide]

8 minutes ago, seak05 said:

His deal is fine, but I think the Orioles have several cheaper options for back end starters. I'd prefer they take the Lyles money and put it towards what they'll need to sign a #1/#2 type

If you want to sign both Syndergaard and Lyles instead, you could talk me into it

I would and plan on Syndergaard, Wells, Lyles, Grat Rod and Kremer  Then replace the 5th starter with Means. I think they should do with Hall what they did with Akin. BTW, I wouldn’t be against moving Akin to the 5th starter and so what value can be had for Watkins and Voth. If Bradish can start pitching 6plus he’d be in the competition for the 5th and if not he becomes the Akin like role.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Roll Tide

[wildcard]

5 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Lyles, Wells, and to a lesser extent Kremer have looked like dependable starters this year.  I'm not willing to depend on Voth when less than 2 months ago he was waiver wire material.  If the O's don't bring back Lyles, they need to find 3 starters.  1 of those starters can be Grayson.  Another, imo, should be an above average starter, a #3 or even #2 starter.  That will either require a huge FA contract (by Oriole standards) or a major trade involving top prospects.  I feel that the O's can fill another spot with one of Hall, Watkins, Bradish, Voth, Zimmermann, etc.  It might seem the O's will have to many starters, but look at the top playoff teams like the Mets and Dodgers.  They both go 8+ deep in starters and have both had to use that depth, especially the Mets.

I really like Bassitt.  He has been really impressive for the Mets, and might be more of a #3 starter.  I don't trust Snydergaard to stay healthy.  You are getting Thor w/ him anyway.  You are getting a guy who throw 92 mph fastballs.  Manaea looks intriguing too. 

Would Bassitt and Manaea require 3 year deals.

I wonder if Elias will take a stab a signing Verlander.  That would obviously take major commitment from ownership. 

We will know more on Voth by the end of the season.  However he says the O's analytics and coaches have helped him a lot.

Edited August 16, 2022 by wildcard

[jdwilde1]

23 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I just can’t see how Hall makes an improved rotation. 

Well, he needs to improve like numerous other young pitchers.  Take Dylan Cease for instance.  In his age 23 and 24 seasons he averaged 4.7 walks per 9 and pitched to a 5.00 era.  Then he took a huge leap in his age 25 season and lead the AL in Ks per 9.  Now, in his age 26 season, he’s one of the five most dominant pitchers in the AL.  

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, jdwilde1 said:

Well, he needs to improve like numerous other young pitchers.  Take Dylan Cease for instance.  In his age 23 and 24 seasons he averaged 4.7 walks per 9 and pitched to a 5.00 era.  Then he took a huge leap in his age 25 season and lead the AL in Ks per 9.  Now, in his age 26 season, he’s one of the five most dominant pitchers in the AL.  

I am continuously surprised that someone who is as athletic as Hall is reported to be that he has such issues with his command.  I've not heard of any major issues with his mechanics either.

[seak05]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I am continuously surprised that someone who is as athletic as Hall is reported to be that he has such issues with his command.  I've not heard of any major issues with his mechanics either.

His pitches move a lot, so any even small issue is going to get magnified 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, waroriole said:

That’s what you see happening or that’s what you want to see?

It’s a combo of both and it doesn’t necessarily have to be those players but, as I said, the Orioles have the resources to go get whoever they want.

These 2 are examples of either rumored to be available or available players.  Big upgrades..difference making talent potentially.  
 

The Os should be able to get 2 guys like that fairly easily.

[Sports Guy]

A theme I see on this board is that many people want to bring back a similar team that we have now, just add the young talent in the minors and things will be fine.

The problem is that you are relying on guys who are having career years, when they have always been mediocre, to repeat the performance.

It’s not happening.  People thought Santander was a real GG caliber player after 2020.  After 2 months, people thought a Hays had turned the corner.  People thought Mullins was going to be an 800+ OPS guy going forward.

And now, Lyles is all of a sudden a MOR starter.  
 

This is not how you win.  While the playoffs are a crap shoot, the Orioles are currently 12 games worse than NY and that’s with us playing great and them playing terribly.  Houston is 15 games better.  Tampa isn’t healthy at all and missing many of their best players and are still in the playoffs. They will be a lot better when they get healthy soon and next year for sure.  Toronto is going to keep being good.  
 

You can’t just sit back and assume mediocre players are always going to be at the level they are this year.  It’s not going to work.

After 2012, the Os did next to nothing to improve the team.  I wasn’t here but I bet a lot of people here were more than happy to keep things status quo.  It’s not going to work.  Major improvements must be made and it starts but greatly upgrading the rotation.

[OriolesMagic83]

The O's trading Mancini (at least $10 mill next year) and not picking up Lyles option ($11 mill) will pay for the vast majority of the first year of any starter the O's are likely to sign.  I say likely, because deGrom and Verlander are extreme long shots.  I like Lyles, but I was looking at the stats of qualified starting pitchers last night and Lyles had the highest WHIP.  I believe it was 1.46.  Lyles greatest ability is taking the ball every 5th day and being able to go 5 or even 6+ innings.  He's basically a #5 on a good team.  I like having him on the 2022 Orioles, but an upgrade shouldn't be hard. 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

I just can’t see how Hall makes an improved rotation. 

By improving himself?

Here’s a dilemma: let’s say you know Hall is going to struggle for two years (say, 4.50 - 5.00 ERA and 5ish IP/Start), and hurt your chances of making the postseason, but if you stick with him, by year 3 he’ll start to turn into something between Erik Bedard and Sandy Koufax. Do you grin and bear it?