2023 Rotation

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Obviously, we need to see how the season and winter play out.

1. Wells

2. Kremer

3. Rodriguez 

4. Bradish

5. Voth

6. Watkins

7. Hall

8. Baumann

9. Zimmerman 

This is without Lyles and without the #1 pitcher most people want.

The performance of this pitching staff is making the additional of two veteran pitchers seem unnecessary.   It’s also starting to make Lyles possible rotation spot in jeopardy.  The next question is, how bad do you think that Elias feels he needs to go out and get starters for next year.  

And you have Means coming back at some point AND Povich possibly ready at some point.

 

Lets put some innings to these starters.  Let's say  30 more innings then they pitch this season.

1.  Wells 125 IP

2. Kremer  140 IP

3. Grayson 100 IP

4. Bradish 165 IP

5. Voth  130 IP

6. Watkins -  probably a long reliever/spot starter

7.  Hall -  Huge question mark.  Could be a starter or reliever.  Control issues

8.   Baumann  is starter depth at this point.  Maybe 115 IP

9. Zimmermann  will be 28 year old with a major league career 5.57 ERA.  Maybe he helps but I will not save a rotation spot for him.

10. Means  - 2nd half. Maybe 100 IP.   Could be a trade chip because 2024 is his walk year.

Then there are injuries.  The O's lost Means, Grayson and Wells this year.   Could happen equally as bad next year.

The bottom line here is that Lyles (also a trade chip)  or another established starter is needed. 

 

[DirtyBird]

Just now, wildcard said:

 

7.  Hall -  Huge question mark.  Could be a starter or reliever.  Control issues

8.   Baumann  is starter depth at this point.  Maybe 115 IP

 

Is there really that much difference between these two?

[wildcard]

24 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Is there really that much difference between these two?

Quite a bit of difference.

Baumann will be 27 this month.   Been through the wars and hopefully has matured. 4.20 ERA at AAA.   1.317 WHIP in 60 IP.  Righty. College draftee.

Hall  will be 24 this month.  Still maturing.  Figuring it out.  High ceiling but has not proven he is a starter yet.  We hope he is  but undetermined.   4.70 ERA at AAA.   1.448 WHIP in 76 IP.  Lefty.   High Ks and BBs. High school draftee.

Edited September 2, 2022 by wildcard

[DirtyBird]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Quite a bit of difference.

Baumann will be 27 this month.   Been through the wars and hopefully has matured. 4.20 ERA at AAA.   1.317 WHIP in 60 IP.  Righty. College draftee.

Hall  will be 24 this month.  Still maturing.  Figuring it out.  High ceiling but has not proven he is a starter yet.  We hope he is  but undetermined.   4.70 ERA at AAA.   1.448 WHIP in 76 IP.  Lefty.   High Ks and BBs. High school draftee.

Nothing here would put one at possibly 115 inning and the other a huge question mark.

Baumann has shown on multiple occasions that he is also a huge question mark.

[wildcard]

11 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

 

11 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Nothing here would put one at possibly 115 inning and the other a huge question mark.

Baumann has shown on multiple occasions that he is also a huge question mark.

You have a point.  

I just think they are coming from difference places.   Baumann pitched 124-130 innings in 2018 and 2019.   He got injured and is coming back.

Hall has never pitched over 95 inning in 2018 at 19 years old.  Still has tons to prove to be a starter.  Love the ceiling though.

But you make a good point.  Both can be considered question marks.

Edited September 2, 2022 by wildcard

[pdiddy]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I will say this…there is no one in the current rotation that I feel overly confident about in terms of being an average or better starter in 2023.

I think they have several guys who could be that and I wouldn’t replace all of them by any means but I will be nervous about all of them no matter how they end the season.  

I don’t feel 100% confident but so many of them pitching well indicates it might be something more sustainable (as opposed to one guy pitching out of his mind a la Matusz).  An earlier post discussed the slider addition for several for instance.

I think there’s enough there plus Rodriguez that they might be able to focus on paying for a top FA and not spending prospects yet. Especially with Means filling in like he’s a free trade deadline addition.

I am interested to see how the rest of the year goes for Degrom and Syndegaard for instance.

 

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

I will say this…there is no one in the current rotation that I feel overly confident about in terms of being an average or better starter in 2023.

I think they have several guys who could be that and I wouldn’t replace all of them by any means but I will be nervous about all of them no matter how they end the season.  

I think that’s fair.  It’s not like any of them have long track records of success.   

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

I will say this…there is no one in the current rotation that I feel overly confident about in terms of being an average or better starter in 2023.

I think they have several guys who could be that and I wouldn’t replace all of them by any means but I will be nervous about all of them no matter how they end the season.  

Can't help you with your nervousness but I am not nervous at all.   These pitchers don't stand there on their own.   They are part of a system built and run by Elias/Sig/Holt/Hyde.    And they are not going to stop here.  Their system helps them indentify talent and their development system helps they improve it. 

I have faith in the system and the people running it.

[eddie83]

We need to add a minimum of one good starter. I would prefer two. Voth to me is the perfect spot starter/long man. I don’t see how we can go into next year and think Hall is in the rotation at the start. Watkins is odd man out. He can be a spring candidate as depth.  
 

FA

Wells

Kremer 

Grod

Bradish  

 

Really prefer 2 additions  

 

 

 

 

[Frobby]

On 9/2/2022 at 3:56 PM, wildcard said:

Can't help you with your nervousness but I am not nervous at all.   These pitchers don't stand there on their own.   They are part of a system built and run by Elias/Sig/Holt/Hyde.    And they are not going to stop here.  Their system helps them indentify talent and their development system helps they improve it. 

I have faith in the system and the people running it.

I’m optimistic but still uncertain.  Another year of good performance would make me a lot more confident.  

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I’m optimistic but still uncertain.  Another year of good performance would make me a lot more confident.  

Yep.  Right now, it can’t be treated as anything more than a one off with a lot of these guys.  We need to see more. 
 

It’s one of the biggest decisions of the offseason.  Who do you believe is for real and who isn’t and how much are you willing to bet on these guys in a year where you absolutely should be a real contender?

[Just Regular]

Fun performance last night, but I hope DL Hall is sent home for the winter with a starting pitcher's preparation plan.

Sure everyone is just an out-getter, but he's someone I hope starts one of the first five games next season.    You can always adjust in-season if he washes out or if by mid-year you want to nurse him to the fall.

Great to see him settling in in any context.

Who is the Opening Day starter as it stands now?

[emmett16]

28 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Fun performance last night, but I hope DL Hall is sent home for the winter with a starting pitcher's preparation plan.

Sure everyone is just an out-getter, but he's someone I hope starts one of the first five games next season.    You can always adjust in-season if he washes out or if by mid-year you want to nurse him to the fall.

Great to see him settling in in any context.

Who is the Opening Day starter as it stands now?

Best guy in spring training.  Looking like Kremer or Bradish.   I think they should put Wells in the bullpen and have him do Akins job at a masterful level.  I don’t think he is durable for a SP load.  Lyles is gone.  Means is just second half depth.  Voth is depth.  If Spencer Watkins is on the 40 man something went wrong with the off-season.  I think Hall goes to AAA or they give him 100 ip out of the bullpen(my preference). Bauman same as Hall.  The way I see it we have 

Rotation:

1. Grayson 

2. Kremer

3. Bradish 

4. need to acquire

5. Need to acquire

SP depth/bullpen/piggyback types:

1. Voth 

2. Wells

3. Hall

4. Bauman

 

Not sure I’m too interested in anyone else.  We should acquire 2 if not 3 pitchers this off-season.  2 starters and a dominate late inning type.  

 

 

[MarCakes21]

3 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

Best guy in spring training.  Looking like Kremer or Bradish.   I think they should put Wells in the bullpen and have him do Akins job at a masterful level.  I don’t think he is durable for a SP load.  Lyles is gone.  Means is just second half depth.  Voth is depth.  If Spencer Watkins is on the 40 man something went wrong with the off-season.  I think Hall goes to AAA or they give him 100 ip out of the bullpen(my preference). Bauman same as Hall.  The way I see it we have 

Rotation:

1. Grayson 

2. Kremer

3. Bradish 

4. need to acquire

5. Need to acquire

SP depth/bullpen/piggyback types:

1. Voth 

2. Wells

3. Hall

4. Bauman

 

Not sure I’m too interested in anyone else.  We should acquire 2 if not 3 pitchers this off-season.  2 starters and a dominate late inning type.  

 

 

This is the ideal with something like Bassitt/Rodon or equivalent.  That puts the bullpen in a strong place.  If you sign two top tier starters, I actually send Hall back down for a first man up SP role with Baumann.

[OriolesMagic83]

The rotation needs help at the top.  Obviously the O's need someone to soak up innings, but they also need someone to front a rotation for a potential playoff series.  I like Lyles and respect what he did this year, but there's no way I want him starting game 1 in the playoffs.

My personal choice would be Bassitt.  I'm sure there are several starters that would fit what the O's need: dependable, fits in Camden Yards (someone help by Camden wall easier to sign), leader mentor, above average in innings pitched, WHIP, FIP, etc.