Orioles Adley problem

[btdart20]

That’s not how I would frame the “problem.”  The problem is lack of offense (or not enough offense) at other positions.  We have to raise the bar in those positions.  If he sits and Chirinos plays, how does that impact runs/game?  Or OBP/OPS?  Or pitcher/catcher metrics?

Any starting catcher will need days off.  I’m fine with working at 24 y/o C a little more frequently than a 32 y/o.  But to say it’s an Adley problem is missing the big picture of the offense.  No/few teams spend much on a back-up C and that applies to the O’s too.  So the gaps has to be made up elsewhere.

For the C position specifically:  Overweight Adley catching for the next years.  And adjust down the line.  One hopeful vision is Basallo sticks and can share time at C, 1B, and DH with Adley.  Maybe a 50/50 at C and a third guy in the1B/DH mix (where Adley/Basallo get over 2/3 of those ABs).

[NashLumber]

25 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Only 62 of the 68 were starts.  He’s come into 6 other games as C In the late innings.  3 of those were after you pinch hitting, the other three were moving from DH to C.

in the minors this year, he started 13 games at C, 5 at DH, 2 at 1B.  So cumulatively (majors and minors, he’s had 75 starts at C, 22 at DH, 2 at 1B.   Last year he had 80 starts at C, 28 at 1B.

Thanks for researching it more deeply. I knew someone would.  My expertise is in music and adding the occasional joke on OH. 

As the John Goodman character in Big Lebowski said to "Donnie", I'm out of my depth. 

Edited September 3, 2022 by NashLumber

[ledzepp8]

16 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

Now he’s not a great hitter?  What the heck team is everybody watching?  This whole thread is bizarre. 

 I do think there are times where he's too patient and will take hangers just because it's early in the count. I think there are definitely times where he could be a little more aggressive.

[Frobby]

“Not a great hitter” depends what you mean.  If we are talking strictly about batting average, I can’t really disagree, at this early stage of Adley’s career. But then again, we’re talking about a player with a 126 wRC+, so the overall offensive package is very good for anyone, let alone a rookie catcher who plays elite defense.  

[seak05]

24 minutes ago, ledzepp8 said:

 I do think there are times where he's too patient and will take hangers just because it's early in the count. I think there are definitely times where he could be a little more aggressive.

I agree with this. I wonder if his elite pitch recognition hurts him ie he identifies it early as a breaking ball, and decides to take it assuming it will break...and it's a bad pitch, so it doesn't and turns into a hittable one

[Aristotelian]

Just now, seak05 said:

I agree with this. I wonder if his elite pitch recognition hurts him ie he identifies it early as a breaking ball, and decides to take it assuming it will break...and it's a bad pitch, so it doesn't and turns into a hittable one

Between Adley's approach and Mountcastle's I would stick with Adley's. He just drew a huge bases loaded pinch hit walk in a big game. I would not change a thing without a larger sample size. 

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

Honestly, I feel Hyde has done a really good job with Rutschman.  He’s started 62 of 91 games at C.   That’s a 110-game pace over a full season.  He’s started 17 at DH, on pace for 30 games over a full year.  I think that’s very balanced.  And I’ll do my best not to get old school grumpy and point out how Yadier Molina started 130+ games at catcher 7 times in his career and is still playing at age 39.

Yep. Not even sure why this is being discussed. Rutschman is not overworked, he just happens to DH when he's not catching because his bat is special.

[Just Regular]

50 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Overall, he's great.  He's just not a great hitter.

The essential Oriole template, like Brooks and Cal and Machado.     Seasons like '66 F. Robinson and '13 Davis have I feel been relatively rare in franchise history relative to how many Hall of Fame and Hall of Very Good guys the Orioles have enjoyed.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

From 2012-2017, Posey appeared in 140 or more games every year.  Now, he didn’t catch every game but I believe he was normally in the 115-130 games started at the C position. 

Posey maxed out at 122 starts at C.  Then 119, 111, 109, 103, 102.   I’m perfectly fine with the 110 per 162 pace Adley is on, plus the 30 per 162 at DH, which Posey didn’t have since the NL had no DH during his career.  

[Sports Guy]

Thanks.  Couldn’t find the exact numbers.

And yea, Adley isn’t likely going to hit 300 or better, so saying he’s not a great hitter isn’t some slap in the face.  Otoh, it also depends on how you define it.

Im guessing Henderson will be a better pure hitter.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Thanks.  Couldn’t find the exact numbers.

And yea, Adley isn’t likely going to hit 300 or better, so saying he’s not a great hitter isn’t some slap in the face.  Otoh, it also depends on how you define it.

Im guessing Henderson will be a better pure hitter.

I don’t throw the term “great” around lightly.  So Adley’s not a great hitter - yet.  Ask me again in a year or two.  

[Orioles4Life21]

Yea I’m not a fan of this definition of hitter that some like to use. Juan Pierre had a career batting average of .295 to Ken Griffey Jr.’s .284. Juan Pierre was not a better hitter than Ken Griffey Jr. I guess you could say he had a better hit tool. 
 

To me at this point Adley is a good hitter and I think eventually he will be great. 

[MijiT88]

Young players are going to slump, it should be just that. This kid came up as a catcher first with a great hit tool. His defense and game calling are huge IMO. I love watching him behind the plate compared to what we have had lately. He will adjust and get his hits. Almost every time he is at the plate he has a quality at bat, not always a quality outcome but that will come with time. I for one would love to see him take on bringing that Molina like catcher back where he is out there 120 games a season. I think he has what it takes to do that and will excel at it. Adley is not highly regarded just because of his hitting, its his total package. He will be out there as much as he wants to be, and I am sure the team is on the same page.

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, MijiT88 said:

Young players are going to slump, it should be just that. This kid came up as a catcher first with a great hit tool. His defense and game calling are huge IMO. I love watching him behind the plate compared to what we have had lately. He will adjust and get his hits. Almost every time he is at the plate he has a quality at bat, not always a quality outcome but that will come with time. I for one would love to see him take on bringing that Molina like catcher back where he is out there 120 games a season. I think he has what it takes to do that and will excel at it. Adley is not highly regarded just because of his hitting, its his total package. He will be out there as much as he wants to be, and I am sure the team is on the same page.

Overuse could shorten his career.  I would rather they maximize Adley's production by finding how to keep him fresh through the season.

[Orioles0615]

2 hours ago, Fiver6565 said:

Every time Adley is not in the lineup there is much gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands in the lineup thread. Now we think maybe he’s playing too much because of a short slump?  It’s hard to keep up. 
 

I think Hyde has done a nice job of keeping him fresh. He’s caught basically zero day games. And acting as DH is close enough to a day off for someone Adley’s age. Batting four times and sitting the bench is a far cry for catching nine innings. 
 

non-story if you ask me. 

This also has to do with every time Adley isn't in the lineup his bat isn't really replaced. More often or not it seems when he is out its Odor, Mateo, Nevin (thankfully gone) Chirninos, Mckenna. All at one point seemed like an automatic out.  Add in Mountcastle and Hayes struggles and you can see why this team is bottom of every offense category. 

 

People keep clamoring for an arm this off season but they need a bat as well