I've made my decision

[sportsfan8703]

We need to spend some money on an upgrade at backup C.  We can't do Chirinos again.  Hopefully Cowser and Westburg, help solve our offensive woes.  

[Moose Milligan]

Someone bookmark this thread for when RZNJ gets uppity next year about how they need Gunnar at 3rd and someone else at SS.

[RZNJ]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Someone bookmark this thread for when RZNJ gets uppity next year about how they need Gunnar at 3rd and someone else at SS.

Ok. I'll do it.

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Someone bookmark this thread for when RZNJ gets uppity next year about how they need Gunnar at 3rd and someone else at SS.

“I’ve made a new decision”

[clutch2113]

I'm not opposed to letting Mateo start the season at short next year.  I know he's still been inconsistent with the bat, but they re-worked his swing around the All-Star break and he's shown marked improvement. 

I feel like an offseason working on his adjusted swing could go a long way towards him having a better all around year next year.

For Context:

Pre All-Star Break:  Games Played: 85      AVG: .205      HR: 7      RBI: 23     OPS: 611

Post All-Star Break: Games Played: 55      AVG: .243      HR: 6      RBI: 26     OPS: 704

Is he setting the world on fire?  No - But he's shown improvement, and in 30 fewer games he equaled his HR total and RBI total - stolen twice as many bases and generally had better AB's.

All while adjusting against major league pitching - I think he's earned a chance to start his age 28 season at short.

Edited September 26, 2022 by clutch2113
typo

[RZNJ]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

“I’ve made a new decision”

Hey!   I just said that's what I think works best and that there's a good chance that's what happens.   If they go with Henderson at 3B, there are advantages to that as well.    Mateo could surprise me and remember how to hit again.   Even if he doesn't, Ortiz could take over there at some point and that leaves Westburg and Norby for 2B.   Henderson at 3B probably works better for fitting in the other guys.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Rankings only mean so much and they sure as hell don’t trump performance.

Look at what these guys are actually doing. I agree that Mateo is talented but so are lots of guys.  He can’t hit. He’s just not good at it and he really never has been.

Look at what Ortiz and Norby and Westburg, etc…are doing.  It’s not like they are doing fairly well..they are dominating. Maybe they don’t have 80 speed or a 70 arm like Mateo but so what?  Flashy, shiney things like that are nice but are only part of the equation.

The all around talent and performance of these guys has been great.  

Brett Phillips is dominating AAA (1.063 OPS).   Tyler Nevin is at .890 there.   Ryan McKenna was at .888 there this year after posting 1.108 last year.  DJ Stewart was at .879.   How do any of those numbers compare with how they’ve done in the majors?

I want to be perfectly clear here.  I think Westburg, Ortiz and Norby have a good chance to be better overall players than Mateo and Urias.  But that’s far from a sure thing, and it’s not like Mateo (3.2 rWAR, 2.4 fWAR) and Urias (3.4 rWAR, 2.3 fWAR) have been bad players.  
 

[NCRaven]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I want to be perfectly clear here.  I think Westburg, Ortiz and Norby have a good chance to be better overall players than Mateo and Urias.  But that’s far from a sure thing, and it’s not like Mateo (3.2 rWAR, 2.4 fWAR) and Urias (3.4 rWAR, 2.3 fWAR) have been bad players.  
 

No.  You’re wrong.  It’s 100%!

[RZNJ]

Just now, Frobby said:

Brett Phillips is dominating AAA (1.063 OPS).   Tyler Nevin is at .890 there.   Ryan McKenna was at .888 there this year after posting 1.108 last year.  DJ Stewart was at .879.   How do any of those numbers compare with how they’ve done in the majors?

I want to be perfectly clear here.  I think Westburg, Ortiz and Norby have a good chance to be better overall players than Mateo and Urias.  But that’s far from a sure thing, and it’s not like Mateo (3.2 rWAR, 2.4 fWAR) and Urias (3.4 rWAR, 2.3 fWAR) have been bad players.  
 

Don't forget Rutchsman (.819) and Henderson (.884).    Based on age, and AAA experience, and from watching them, I like Westburg, Ortiz, and Norby's chances.   You're right OPS doesn't tell the whole story.

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Don't forget Rutchsman (.819) and Henderson (.884).    Based on age, and AAA experience, and from watching them, I like Westburg, Ortiz, and Norby's chances.   You're right OPS doesn't tell the whole story.

I like their chances fine.  SG is stating as a fact that they are better than the guys we have now.  I don’t think we know that.  We hope so, and have some reason to think that’s realistic, but it’s far from a certainty.  

[Sports Guy]

21 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Brett Phillips is dominating AAA (1.063 OPS).   Tyler Nevin is at .890 there.   Ryan McKenna was at .888 there this year after posting 1.108 last year.  DJ Stewart was at .879.   How do any of those numbers compare with how they’ve done in the majors?

I want to be perfectly clear here.  I think Westburg, Ortiz and Norby have a good chance to be better overall players than Mateo and Urias.  But that’s far from a sure thing, and it’s not like Mateo (3.2 rWAR, 2.4 fWAR) and Urias (3.4 rWAR, 2.3 fWAR) have been bad players.  
 

Well, you have some advanced ages there. You also have some guys that have been through the level several times over.  You also have talent and scouting reports.

 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I like their chances fine.  SG is stating as a fact that they are better than the guys we have now.  I don’t think we know that.  We hope so, and have some reason to think that’s realistic, but it’s far from a certainty.  

No, I stated that they have more talent and are better prospects based on the combo of talent and performance.

I also said that success in the majors isn’t guaranteed for them and that there are a lot of factors, that aren’t talent related, that can prohibit someone from being successful. 

[Sports Guy]

Take Mateo for example..in 2019, he was 24.  He was playing in AAA in his second full season, both times in the hitter friendly PCL. He had an 834 OPS that year.

Ortiz, in his age 23 season (but we will call him 24 since that’s how old he is now while in AAA) has an OPS over 1000 and he’s in a pitchers park.

Now, the sample size is smaller and maybe that number comes down but so far, it’s not close. 
 

Westburg is 23 and putting up far better numbers.

Norby is 22 and doing it although obviously we need to see more from him.

These guys are just better baseball players. The combo of everything they have is just superior.  Whether they translate that to the majors remains to be seen.  A lot of the difference between the good and bad is what’s between the ears And if they can stay healthy.  We will see on that stuff.

 

[Frobby]

13 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

No, I stated that they have more talent and are better prospects based on the combo of talent and performance.

I also said that success in the majors isn’t guaranteed for them and that there are a lot of factors, that aren’t talent related, that can prohibit someone from being successful. 

Personally I think Mateo is very talented.  His plate discipline is poor.  

[tntoriole]

53 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Hey!   I just said that's what I think works best and that there's a good chance that's what happens.   If they go with Henderson at 3B, there are advantages to that as well.    Mateo could surprise me and remember how to hit again.   Even if he doesn't, Ortiz could take over there at some point and that leaves Westburg and Norby for 2B.   Henderson at 3B probably works better for fitting in the other guys.

Best case scenario is Jackson moves as rapidly and with development like Gunnar.. I think the real question going forward is 1b. 
That is where either Mountcastle steps up or needs to be replaced with a big time bat. 
 

Now if they sign Nolan Arenado, then sure .. trade Mateo and move Gunnar to ss and keep Urias as the utility guy.  

But several reports are that Nolan is not going to opt out and loves St Louis

https://redbirdrants.com/2022/09/23/cardinals-rumors-nolan-arenado/amp/

If they sign Jose Abreu then of course they will trade Mountcastle.