I've made my decision

[LA2]

20 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Palmer can gush all he wants.  I haven’t heard him say much about Jorge’s at bats.   If you have a great team and a great one-way player, that’s great.  Would you rather have the best defensive catcher in baseball or Adley Rutshman at catcher?    

Your comparison seems to assume that Henderson can be as good a glove at SS as Rutschman is behind the plate. I think that has not been proven yet.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Your comparison seems to assume that Henderson can be as good a glove at SS as Rutschman is behind the plate. I think that has not been proven yet.

No, but I think the team will bet the same way I am.  Henderson has the talent to be an above average SS.   We have a lot of infielders in the system who can hit.  There’s no reason to have a defensive only SS.  

[tntoriole]

18 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Palmer can gush all he wants.  I haven’t heard him say much about Jorge’s at bats.   If you have a great team and a great one-way player, that’s great.  Would you rather have the best defensive catcher in baseball or Adley Rutshman at catcher?    

Again .. a bit of a false equivalency.  The difference is .050 OPS between our proposals.  Now if Elias was going to sign a big bat free agent third baseman I would agree .  I doubt he is. 

But i would risk the .050 on the combo of Henderson at 3rd and Mateo at short over Urias (arb eligible in 2024) at 3rd and Gunnar at short.  To take the admitted risk that Mateo hits a bit better.. if not, Gunnar can take over at that point at ss. 
 

But it is a good problem to have and I can see it going your way too. 

[Just Regular]

I'm keeping an open mind watching Orioles Player Development unfold, but my decision using possibly antiquated thinking is that Gunnar Henderson is NOT a MLB shortstop because the org didn't deploy him there primarily as a minor leaguer.

Just write him into 3B and a plum lineup spot as long as you can.    It saves a Jackson Holliday headache in two years to boot.    

Urias-Stowers is a nice half of a bench if we block them by getting say somebody like Michael Brantley to take professional at-bats as a primary DH.

[clapdiddy]

42 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Palmer can gush all he wants.  I haven’t heard him say much about Jorge’s at bats.   If you have a great team and a great one-way player, that’s great.  Would you rather have the best defensive catcher in baseball or Adley Rutshman at catcher?    

I know you are just trying to make a point, but I don't think that Rutschman is far off of being one of the best defensive catchers in baseball.  Mateo is a LONG way from being the best offensive shortstop in baseball.

Edited September 25, 2022 by clapdiddy

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

I'm keeping an open mind watching Orioles Player Development unfold, but my decision using possibly antiquated thinking is that Gunnar Henderson is NOT a MLB shortstop because the org didn't deploy him there primarily as a minor leaguer.

Just write him into 3B and a plum lineup spot as long as you can.    It saves a Jackson Holliday headache in two years to boot.    

Urias-Stowers is a nice half of a bench if we block them by getting say somebody like Michael Brantley to take professional at-bats as a primary DH.

 

3 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

I'm keeping an open mind watching Orioles Player Development unfold, but my decision using possibly antiquated thinking is that Gunnar Henderson is NOT a MLB shortstop because the org didn't deploy him there primarily as a minor leaguer.

Just write him into 3B and a plum lineup spot as long as you can.    It saves a Jackson Holliday headache in two years to boot.    

Urias-Stowers is a nice half of a bench if we block them by getting say somebody like Michael Brantley to take professional at-bats as a primary DH.

Part of the reason Henderson did not play SS primarily is because of who else was on the team.   If Holliday is that great, Henderson can move in 2-3 years or Holliday can start at 2B or 3B.  We should have such problems.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, clapdiddy said:

I know you are just trying to make a point, but I don't think that Rutschman is far off of being one of the best defensive catchers in baseball.  Mateo is a LONG way from being the best offensive shortstops in baseball.

I’m not sure of your point but I agree with you.  I don’t believe the drop in defense from Mateo to Henderson will be that much.   

[O's84]

1 hour ago, Aristotelian said:

"I am taking my message board posting talents to... (Drumroll), and this was a difficult choice... the MIAMI MARLINS!"

And winning not 1, not 2, not 3 not....

Edited September 25, 2022 by O's84

[Jammer7]

It’s one way to go, for sure an interesting one. Henderson has acclimated quickly. To assume that Ortiz and Westburg can adjust quickly is certainly a gamble. I believe they both should become everyday players, but I think easing them in at first to be a better strategy if we want to make a playoff run in 2023.

If Henderson is the everyday SS, I believe he’ll wear down some at SS and hurt his production. Less wear and tear at 3B, which will keep his bat in the lineup more. A great athlete, and he’ll get bigger, I wonder if he’ll slow down some as he fills out. Maybe a concern when it comes and he plays SS until then.

I had read of concern about his consistency at SS, but I don’t see much of an issue so far. The two errors at 2B notwithstanding. He’s a stud. If you want to put him at SS and trade Mateo, fine, assuming there’s a suitor with a good return. It has to be a very good return. 

I am good with then having Ortiz at 2B over Urias, who is much better at 3B. We’ll see how committed to winning Elias is in 2023, and which prospects he prefers to stay and play which positions. 

[FlaO'sFan]

My opinion based on my eyes and nothing else since Gunnar has been up tells me to stick him at 3rd and leave him there. That's just a gut feeling that long term third is where he belongs, but some of the arguments for him at SS are certainly persuasive, and he has looked good there in limited action. Where he plays in the field next season is going to be one of the more interesting story lines all off-season and ST.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, RZNJ said:

According to Tony and the stats, you are only playing one guy at his optimal position, Henderson.   Even that, I think is up for debate.  Urías seems pretty clearly to be a much better 3B than 2B.   According to Tony, Ortiz would be above average at SS but elite at 2B (also key for turning the DP).   How much better is Henderson 3B than SS?   How much better are Mateo and Ortiz at SS compared to Henderson?  From what I’ve seen, Henderson might be much better at SS than we have previously assumed.  He moves really well and he’s got a cannon.  How consistent can he become?  He’s already good and he’s 21.

Tony has said Ortiz is a better defensive SS than Henderson.  So to me, I have the best SS playing SS (the most important IF position) and the best 3B playing 3B.  My reservations are about playing Urias at 2B, because he’s been decent there but seems better at 3B.

By the way, I haven’t ruled out that Henderson could be an above average defensive SS.  I just take Tony’s word for it that Ortiz is better.  

Anyway, lots of good options here.  
 

[billw76]

I think this off season would be the perfect time to move Mateo, can't see his value getting much higher.

I prefer Ortiz as SS over Henderson, and he should hit much better than Mateo.

Next season I'd like to see an infield of Mountcastle 1B, Norby 2B, Ortiz SS and Henderson at 3B, with Urias as the utility guy, Westburg could also fill that role or 2B at some point, although I don't think he's anywhere near Henderson or Ortiz defensively. 

[Sports Guy]

There are a lot of ways they could go about the starting IF next year that would make me happy.

I do think you have to consider what it could do to Henderson if you put him at SS and move him for Holliday.  Does that bother him knowing it could hurt him in negotiations?  I’m not saying it’s a reason you don’t do it, just saying I think it deserves consideration.

You also wonder how many rookies they are willing to put out there from day one?

For me, the only things I feel confident about are not wanting Mateo as the everyday SS and not spending money or making trades for an IFer of any kind.

[OriolesMagic83]

Did you tell Elias yet?

[Aristotelian]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Tony has said Ortiz is a better defensive SS than Henderson.  So to me, I have the best SS playing SS (the most important IF position) and the best 3B playing 3B.  My reservations are about playing Urias at 2B, because he’s been decent there but seems better at 3B.

By the way, I haven’t ruled out that Henderson could be an above average defensive SS.  I just take Tony’s word for it that Ortiz is better.  

Anyway, lots of good options here.  
 

Do we know that Ortiz will be an offensive upgrade over Mateo?