1/14 @ Miami

[Tony-OH]

Gary did an awful job of taking advantage of the 2 final 4s and NC, IMO.

However, for those of you calling for him to be gone...I hope you realize it will get worse before it gets better...and it may never be that good again.

I am not sure what to think about Gary anymore...I think he should go out on his terms but I think you can only take so many bad years and so many games where you blow it down the stretch.

MD looked terrific until the 10 minute mark tonight and then, all of a sudden, they played scared, were unorganized and seemed to be afraid. That's not talent guys, thats coaching.

Why is that? Maryland has an elite practice facility and arena and is in a basketball heavy area. With the right recruiting and coaching, Maryland can be back to an elite program that can compete year in and year out with Duke and North Carolina. The program is very stale right now and recruits know that. The elite players are not going to come here while Williams is the coach.

I have no doubts that just like the Ravens, Maryland can be back with a new voice at the top.

[Pedro Cerrano]

I just don't get the Gary love here.

I mean, I really really don't get it.

The program is going nowhere. We're in neutral. At this point we're spending every single season reading Stoner's posts about what scenarios need to happen to make the tourney. TO MAKE THE TOURNEY!! Making the tourney used to be a given for this program, the only analysis needed was how our bracket shaped up and how far we coudl go. Now, we're lucky to even have a shot to make it! And this isn't some random season, it's been like this for almost HALF A DECADE!!

Things aren't getting better. They got bad and they've basically been at a stand-still. Maybe some can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but I have 20/20 vision and all I see is a mess.

[Tony-OH]

I think the reason the Terps have fallen apart twice in the last week is their inability to play a regular half-court game with someone. Certainly last night, we called off the press dogs a bit when we were up 16, and we allowed Miami to get in a rhythm offensively. I don't think we're talented enough to play anything less than an up and down game where we're forcing turnovers. Otherwise the other teams will be able to let their height and athleticism take over.

I did think Maryland tightened up, though. Williams was calling timeout after timeout, so you could see that he sensed it, too. He wasn't flying off the handle like he does on occasion. Still, our guys, other than Bowie and Vasquez, looked scared to do anything offensively.

This is a great point. if I recall, Gary called three consecutive timeouts after Miami scored a basket. It was getting ridiculous and you could see Miami coming back even more intense and Maryland coming out scared to make a mistake. I'm usually not a basher of Williams when it comes to his in game coaching, but i really felt he coached poorly last night and was part of the problem. Of course a bigger problem is the non existence of anyone with an inside game or rebounding/block shot ability and an offense that relies on outside shooting when Bowie can't get to the basket.

[Tony-OH]

Well, quite frankly, you're wrong. I don't recall a single post that said that.

BTW, just for safety's sake, I'm not starting any more game threads! I can't possibly imagine a worse outcome than what happened tonight.

Ok, then I'll apologize. Like I said, I really didn't check in on the Maryland forum very often but I figured at least stoner and BTerp were singing praises.

[ccbird]

Maryland was definitely an elite program during the Lefty Driesell era, and it was recognized as an elite program. The Len Elmore/John Lucas/Tom McMillan teams most likely would have made a couple of final fours had it not been for the NCAA tournament's one-team-per-conference rule at the time.

Gary has had a great run at Maryland--he took a program in the dumps and restored it to national prominence, first making it a perennial tournament and frequent Sweet Sixteen team before the two final fours and the title. But the program has fallen off a cliff since then. The Gilchrist/Caner Medley/Strawberry team came with much fanfare but accomplished little, and the current Vazquez/Milbourne/Hayes/Bowie team is likely to make at most one NCAA tournament appearance (next year will be their best shot). We've settled into a being a mediocre NIT program that can get into the occasional NCAA tournament in a good year. That's not up to the standards set by Lefty or by Gary himself during his first 12-14 years here.

Meanwhile, Dino Gaudio has made Wake Forest into a national championship contender. Wake Forest is a small school in the middle of nowhere with much less basketball history than Maryland...our program has all kinds of structural advantages over Wake, yet Wake has passed us by. So I don't want to hear excuses about how Maryland can't hope to compete with Duke and Carolina.

I think people fail to realize how good this program was in the 70's. Being 29 I doubt I fully understand how good this program was. Were we elite?? Depends on how you define elite. We didn't win any NAtional Championships or make any Final Fours but as you noted only one team from each conference made the tourny until '75. Even then throughout the rest of the 70's the field never expanded beyond 32 teams and there was rarely more than 2 teams from a conference who made the tourny. I mean if we were currently playing pre'75 rules Gary would have one NCAA tourny appearance. Plus we did win the '72 NIT when it was a much more prestigious tournament. We were undoubtedly a top 10 or 15 program in the '70s.

To the here and now I get tired of people saying we expect to much. No we aren't going to be UNC or DUke. Those two programs are currently on another level. However, we not only can but should be a top 10 or 15 program and we aren't aywhere close to that right now.

[section18]

My comments were critical of the team and Gary and then I followed it up with the what IF comment. It's true the one point loss and the two point loss should never have happened. We could easily be 14-2 and 2-0 in the ACC. I am not saying Gary is without fault. I am the one who said his yelling doesn't work in today's game and with this team after the Morgan loss. It's obvious as long as Vasquez is on this team he will take ALL of the key shots in a game. If I were coach he would not take all of the shots late in a game. Coaches on other teams see this and will probably double team GV in future games. If Bowie didn't get into foul trouble which rarely happens this is a different game last night. He should be one of the "go to" guys in the future.

[beaner]

But we should be. After the national championship, the program got a ton of money and built a new state of the art practice and arena facilities. The Baltimore area has been a good area for basketball talent for years but unfortunately, it keeps going to other schools because Gary has either been unable or unwilling to get the top players from the area.

Maryland might not be Duke of North Carolina, but they should be an elite top 25 year in and year out program. I agree 100 percent the Gary put the program on the map for the most part although it can be argued that Lefty actually was the coach that did that for Maryland, but he's also the one that is running it back into an afterthought in my opinion.

Gary has done a decent job in Baltimore (Booth, Elliott, Dixon) just to name a few, much better than previous coaches did in fact. Lefty didn't get any Baltimore kids after Ernie Graham. At the height of the Dunbar greatness (Bogues, Wingate, Russ Williams, Michael Brown, Reggie Lewis..etc) Lefty didn't get one guy. I know there's a backstory, but can't recall it right now.

I do agree that there is no reason that Maryland shouldn't at least be a consistent NCAA Tourney team at worst. No question about that. I don't know what the solution is, but I wouldn't give up on Gary Williams. Maybe I am guilty of giving too much credit to past successes, I'll admit that. But I think that if Gary goes, this could turn into a "be careful what you wish for" type situation.

[ccbird]

Why is that? Maryland has an elite practice facility and arena and is in a basketball heavy area. With the right recruiting and coaching, Maryland can be back to an elite program that can compete year in and year out with Duke and North Carolina. The program is very stale right now and recruits know that. The elite players are not going to come here while Williams is the coach.

I have no doubts that just like the Ravens, Maryland can be back with a new voice at the top.

Yeah, I don't buy this argument either. Depending on who the new guy is it might take him 2 or 3 years to get some connections in the local hotbeds and get his type of recruits but honestly even in that transition period it is hard to imagine we can't get better talent than we currently have now anyway. Half of the players in our classes the last 4 years have been picked over projects. The other half, the guys who we've actually somewhat targeted and went after early in the process are flawed and marginal ACC players(Hayes, Dupree, Milbourne, Gregory).

The only thing I think might really set this program back is if Gary goes out the door kicking and screaming. Gary has a lot of friends and if the preception is that he was treated unfairly it could very well hurt with our chances of hiring the quality of coach we want to bring in next. Even then though I'm getting to the point where I might just take that risk. While it might ruffle feathers in the coaching community it certainly isn't going to hurt any recruiting connections with AAU and high school coaches considering Gary, for the most part, is not well received in that community.

[Sports Guy]

Why is that? Maryland has an elite practice facility and arena and is in a basketball heavy area. With the right recruiting and coaching, Maryland can be back to an elite program that can compete year in and year out with Duke and North Carolina. The program is very stale right now and recruits know that. The elite players are not going to come here while Williams is the coach.

I have no doubts that just like the Ravens, Maryland can be back with a new voice at the top.

I disagree about the idea that MD should be an elite level program.

They can be a team that contends for the sweet 16 often and perhaps, every 10 years or so, contend for a title but overall, they are a team that is in the 20-40 range and can do some damage here and there.

The program is what it is because of Gary..Comcast Center is there because of Gary.

There is no doubt about this and I think people do forget about that.

As a person who really dislikes the Terps and wants to see them at the bottom, I hope Gary does leave because I think he is their best option.

[beaner]

I disagree about the idea that MD should be an elite level program.

They can be a team that contends for the sweet 16 often and perhaps, every 10 years or so, contend for a title but overall, they are a team that is in the 20-40 range and can do some damage here and there.

The program is what it is because of Gary..Comcast Center is there because of Gary.

There is no doubt about this and I think people do forget about that.

As a person who really dislikes the Terps and wants to see them at the bottom, I hope Gary does leave because I think he is their best option.

The Carolina representative agrees.

I genuinely like the Terps though, I root for them with the exception of two games per season. They were a #4 seed two years ago in the tourney, and I'd expect to see them back in a year or so. This wasn't supposed to be a very good team anyway.

[YaBoyTopher]

I am a Gary supporter. People talk about how he does not recruit top guys which is true but alot of people tend to forget that Gary did bring in some top recruits after the NC. Jones, Caner-medley, Garrison, Strawberry, Ibekwe and Gist were all pretty highly regarded recruits that just did not pan out. Thats in the past now.

With this current team I think he is doing the best with his circumstances, essentially we have no big man, Braxton Dupree who was "supposed" to be a good recruit is a complete bum. We were supposed to have Gus Gilchrist who was projected to be a beast but he transfered due to some transfer rules and the fact that Gary wouldnt give his "mentor" a job.

My point is essentially this, Unless you can land the 1 and done players like a Oden, Beasly, Rose or Durant which Gary dosent want, and honestly I dont want those types either, you cant re-build a program overnight, that Caner-medley Strawberry class set us back a few years, but we are on the right track now, We have Mosley who is a bona fide PG, That kid is going to be great for us I GURANTEE that, we have Kim who when he gets some seasoning will shoot lights out, Tucker and Bowie are solid. We are getting 2 good big men in next years class.

My prediction for this year is we ride the bubble all the way but we sneak in to the NCAA tourney, My gut tells me this team can pull it off, but we shall see. Gary built this program to elite status once and he will do it again.

[Tony-OH]

I disagree about the idea that MD should be an elite level program.

They can be a team that contends for the sweet 16 often and perhaps, every 10 years or so, contend for a title but overall, they are a team that is in the 20-40 range and can do some damage here and there.

The program is what it is because of Gary..Comcast Center is there because of Gary.

There is no doubt about this and I think people do forget about that.

As a person who really dislikes the Terps and wants to see them at the bottom, I hope Gary does leave because I think he is their best option.

Sorry, but you are totally biased by your dislike of the Terps. The Terps have always been a top 25-type of program and it used to be making the tournament each year was a given. Now it's not. I find it amusing that most of the people that are supporting Gary are people who like other schools and ex-students of Maryland who are blinded by Williams' deity-like persona on campus. That speaks volumes to me.

You are like a Steelers fan telling us we'll be sorry we let Billick go because after all, he coached us to our Super Bowl. I respect your opinion in other matters but not in Maryland basketball. When you tell me the program should be no better than a 20-40 program, I'll have to disagree.

There is no reason with the right coach that this program can't be an elite program year in and year out. We have every right to expect a top 25 team each year. It takes a coach that can recruit and one that is flexible enough to adjust his style to his players.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Sorry, but you are totally biased by your dislike of the Terps. The Terps have always been a top 25-type of program and it used to be making the tournament each year was a given. Now it's not. I find it amusing that most of the people that are supporting Gary are people who like other schools and ex-students of Maryland who are blinded by Williams' deity-like persona on campus. That speaks volumes to me.

You are like a Steelers fan telling us we'll be sorry we let Billick go because after all, he coached us to our Super Bowl. I respect your opinion in other matters but not in Maryland basketball. When you tell me the program should be no better than a 20-40 program, I'll have to disagree.

There is no reason with the right coach that this program can't be an elite program year in and year out. We have every right to expect a top 25 team each year. It takes a coach that can recruit and one that is flexible enough to adjust his style to his players.

Maryland has finished ranked in the final AP poll 19 times in 60 years. Ten have been under Gary Williams, starting in 1995.

How many programs would take ten Top-25 finishes in 14 seasons?

Before that, we had a one in the fifties, one in the sixties, a short streak in the seventies, and three in the 80s. So, we're not exactly an every-year program, here.

Trivia question: on the list of top 10 total appearences in the AP poll, where does Maryland rank all-time?

Look, I'm just pointing out flaws in arguments here. I'm not going to make any general pro-Gary Williams arguments here, because I know they will fall upon the deafest of deaf ears with this group. I'm just saying you need better evidence agaisnt what SG and Beaner are correctly pointing out.

[Mackus]

It takes a coach that can recruit and one that is flexible enough to adjust his style to his players.

I understand the criticisms of Gary's recruiting and agree with them. He has to do a better job.

But attacking his coaching is just ridiculous and has no basis in any sort of reality. Just more of your anti-Gary agenda, and that speaks volumes to me. I think that other people would get better talent into Maryland, but nobody in the country will get more out of the talent that does end up here than Gary Williams.

I still think he can and will do a better job of recruiting and getting the talent in here that we need to be the type of program we should be. He's gotta start doing it right now though, I can't take much more of being NIT fodder.

[clapdiddy]

Sorry, but you are totally biased by your dislike of the Terps. The Terps have always been a top 25-type of program and it used to be making the tournament each year was a given. Now it's not. I find it amusing that most of the people that are supporting Gary are people who like other schools and ex-students of Maryland who are blinded by Williams' deity-like persona on campus. That speaks volumes to me.

You are like a Steelers fan telling us we'll be sorry we let Billick go because after all, he coached us to our Super Bowl. I respect your opinion in other matters but not in Maryland basketball. When you tell me the program should be no better than a 20-40 program, I'll have to disagree.

There is no reason with the right coach that this program can't be an elite program year in and year out. We have every right to expect a top 25 team each year. It takes a coach that can recruit and one that is flexible enough to adjust his style to his players.

What other big coach would consider coming here? What about a guy like Pitino? Would he like to go head-to-head with Coach K and Roy Williams year in and out?

That would be an instant boost to recruiting.