Anthony Santander 2023

[survivedc]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Wasn't the last QO 19.65M?

Sure. The post I replied to had a quote that wasn’t talking about QOing him.

Either way, accepting a $20M risk isn’t the same as wanting to pay him that.

[Since1984]

There is no proven replacement for Santander’s bat. You do not let that go in this situation

Edited August 30, 2023 by Since1984
Steak

[Hallas]

He's got another arb year.  Maybe you could buy him out of his QO year by offering him a 2 year deal for around 30 million?  That's fairly close to what he'd get in arb + QO.

[Billy F-Face3]

5 minutes ago, Hallas said:

He's got another arb year.  Maybe you could buy him out of his QO year by offering him a 2 year deal for around 30 million?  That's fairly close to what he'd get in arb + QO.

Or maybe a 3 year deal.

In just his arb year he'd probably get no more than $13 Mill, and that's the generous side of things. (Going rate estimates about $11-12 Million arb.) So yeah, try to see what he would sign for in the 1st couple years of free agency if it will get him a raise in the arb year. Could be beneficial for both Santander and the team.

I mean this is the best hitter (let alone, Switch Hitter) that we've had since Eddie Murray, and Eddie Murray is a hall of fame player.

[maybenxtyr]

5 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Or maybe a 3 year deal.

In just his arb year he'd probably get no more than $13 Mill, and that's the generous side of things. (Going rate estimates about $11-12 Million arb.) So yeah, try to see what he would sign for in the 1st couple years of free agency if it will get him a raise in the arb year. Could be beneficial for both Santander and the team.

I mean this is the best hitter (let alone, Switch Hitter) that we've had since Eddie Murray, and Eddie Murray is a hall of fame player.

I know a few people want to trade him in the off season, but I think he's a decent enough bat to keep around if possible. I doubt the O's extend him because they're not willing, at least so far to spend, but he'd be nice to slot in as a DH and occasional OF.

[Hallas]

8 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Or maybe a 3 year deal.

In just his arb year he'd probably get no more than $13 Mill, and that's the generous side of things. (Going rate estimates about $11-12 Million arb.) So yeah, try to see what he would sign for in the 1st couple years of free agency if it will get him a raise in the arb year. Could be beneficial for both Santander and the team.

I mean this is the best hitter (let alone, Switch Hitter) that we've had since Eddie Murray, and Eddie Murray is a hall of fame player.

Uh, we've had some hitters come through that have been good.  Our system was broken but not *that* broken.  Cal,  Brian Roberts,  Nick Markakis,  Adam Jones, Melvin Mora (he's questionable in terms of counting but he didn't blossom until he was with the O's.)  All of those guys have at least 2 seasons that were better batting seasons than Santander's best.

 

To be honest, he might be one of our better hitters, but we have such a position player crunch in the pipeline that I'm not sure I'd rather keep Santander over those guys.  Even if Cowser bombs out, we have Kjerstad and Mayo coming in behind him that can play RF.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Hallas

[Gurgi]

Santander will be a great test case for how the Orioles will spend in the next half decade.   If they move him this off season it will be evidence that John Angelos was not lying when he said it isnt likely the Orioles pay our young stars the big bucks.  If we really wont pony up some dough they should trade him at the highest point.  Which is right after we win the World Series with Santander hitting a walk off to win the whole thing. 

[Since1984]

Or 1B backup

[Say O!]

2 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

Santander will be a great test case for how the Orioles will spend in the next half decade.   If they move him this off season it will be evidence that John Angelos was not lying when he said it isnt likely the Orioles pay our young stars the big bucks.  If we really wont pony up some dough they should trade him at the highest point.  Which is right after we win the World Series with Santander hitting a walk off to win the whole thing. 

This depends on the return back. 

[Gurgi]

1 minute ago, Say O! said:

This depends on the return back. 

Yeah thats a given.  If a team wont give you what you think he is worth you just keep him and play him and look for the next trade deadline to move him.   

[Billy F-Face3]

4 minutes ago, Hallas said:

Uh, we've had some hitters come through that have been good.  Our system was broken but not *that* broken.  Cal,  Brian Roberts,  Nick Markakis,  Adam Jones, Melvin Mora (he's questionable in terms of counting but he didn't blossom until he was with the O's.)  All of those guys have at least 2 seasons that were better batting seasons than Santander's best.

 

To be honest, he might be one of our better hitters, but we have such a position player crunch in the pipeline that I'm not sure I'd rather keep Santander over those guys.  Even if Cowser bombs out, we have Kjerstad and Mayo coming in behind him that can play RF.

How many of them were switch hitters? How many of those were consistently putting up 30 home runs and 70+ RBIs via both sides of the plate? Exactly my point.

Also, know one knows if Kjerstad and Mayo will be able to handle Major League Pitching either. They are minor leaguers at this point. And even if they do, it's already known that Santander is putting up premiere hitter offensive production which has translated to a great number of wins when the team needed a big hit in the right moment. No one knows if a rookie can do that yet.

Best to try and keep great players for a championship push while you're able to, and sprinkle in the young talent around him to have a smooth transition into the future.

[Hallas]

4 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

How many of them were switch hitters? How many of those were consistently putting up 30 home runs and 70+ RBIs via both sides of the plate? Exactly my point.

Also, know one knows if Kjerstad and Mayo will be able to handle Major League Pitching either. They are minor leaguers at this point. And even if they do, it's already known that Santander is putting up premiere hitter offensive production which has translated to a great number of wins when the team needed a big hit in the right moment. No one knows if a rookie can do that yet.

Best to try and keep great players for a championship push while you're able to, and sprinkle in the young talent around him to have a smooth transition into the future.

 

Roberts was a switch hitter, and in his prime was a much, much better hitter than Santander even if he didn't hit the HRs.  His doubles and OBP made up for the lack of HRs, and his best SLG year is better than Santander's.

 

I really don't think Santander qualifies as great.  Rutschman is a great player.  Henderson might be a great player.  Acuna is a great player.  Santander?  He's a good player, not a great one.

[Billy F-Face3]

2 minutes ago, Hallas said:

 

Roberts was a switch hitter, and in his prime was a much, much better hitter than Santander even if he didn't hit the HRs.  His doubles and OBP made up for the lack of HRs, and his best SLG year is better than Santander's.

 

I really don't think Santander qualifies as great.  Rutschman is a great player.  Henderson might be a great player.  Acuna is a great player.  Santander?  He's a good player, not a great one.

Roberts was a totally different style of player. He was a contact/leadoff hitter and played middle infield. You're right, Roberts never hit for power. They can't be compared.

Santander is the first Orioles switch hitter to hit 25+ home runs in consecutive season since Eddie Murray. You can't erase that statistic. And the fact remains, is that Eddie Murray is a hall of fame player who has his number handing from the upper deck in left field of Camden Yards. Santander is currently doing what Eddie did.

If Eddie Murray is not great in your eyes, then I guess we will have to just disagree.

[Hallas]

10 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Roberts was a totally different style of player. He was a contact/leadoff hitter and played middle infield. You're right, Roberts never hit for power. They can't be compared.

Santander is the first Orioles switch hitter to hit 25+ home runs in consecutive season since Eddie Murray. You can't erase that statistic. And the fact remains, is that Eddie Murray is a hall of fame player who has his number handing from the upper deck in left field of Camden Yards. Santander is currently doing what Eddie did.

If Eddie Murray is not great in your eyes, then I guess we will have to just disagree.

Of course Eddie was great, I'm just saying there were other better hitters in between.  But the only switch hitter was Roberts.

[EddeeEddee]

1 hour ago, Hallas said:

 

Roberts was a switch hitter, and in his prime was a much, much better hitter than Santander even if he didn't hit the HRs.  His doubles and OBP made up for the lack of HRs, and his best SLG year is better than Santander's.

 

I really don't think Santander qualifies as great.  Rutschman is a great player.  Henderson might be a great player.  Acuna is a great player.  Santander?  He's a good player, not a great one.

Santander's power numbers are better than Adley's this year for sure.  I was surprised to see some people on these boards grumble about Adley being a bit of a disappointment.  I very much disagree he's a disappointment, but he hasn't yet really shown "greatness" -- too soon really -- even though we're all supposed to believe he's the second coming.  What he's shown is solid, consistent hitting, excellent catching skills and leadership, and confidence, especially with how he appears to work with the pitchers.

Looking at Santander's baseball reference page, it's interesting to see that the player it considers him comparing best with is Jay Buhner.  Buhner, while maybe not great, if my memory is any good was a very solid player.  If Santander is a good comp, then it's possible, like Buhner, he won't peak for a few more years -- beginning around age 29.  Now take all this with a grain of salt because Buhner's peak years were in the middle of the steroid era.  Yet in at least one way Santander appears to be better than Buhner in that he does not strike out nearly as much.  My point here, by br's comparison (for what it's worth) -- it's quite possible Santander's best years are still to come.   

Whether the O's trade Santander or not, I doubt they do it on the assumption that any of the young prospects will be ready to step in for him on opening day of next year.  There's a decent chance that one or more of Cowser, Kjerstad and Mayo could all one day end up being better than Santander.  But replace that production by early next season?  Maybe, but I'm of the mind set that you don't assume something will happen until it happens.  A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush.  Keep Santander until one or more of them forces their way in to show they can replace, or even better, outperform him.