Ohtani Rental?

[Greg Pappas]

Just now, Malike said:

I don't think Moreno trades him at all, personally. I do not think the Orioles should trade for him if he's available, bigger picture is ahead of us.

So, if the Angels would trade Ohtani to us for Norby and Beavers, you'd be upset we made that trade?  Again, where do you draw the line? 

[Malike]

1 minute ago, Greg Pappas said:

So, if the Angels would trade Ohtani to us for Norby and Beavers, you'd be upset we made that trade?  Again, where do you draw the line? 

I thought we were talking realistic trades, of course I'd trade those players. Now, if you want to make a realistic proposal, I'd likely not take that trade.

[HakunaSakata]

1 hour ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Heres the flaw in this post... Players who are 23 and 25 years old with no spot to play on tbe big league roster (some are top 100) are not part of future plans. They are not the pipeline. 

No one disputes the point you made about not mortgaging the future. But what is lost in your post is that we have alot of excess valuable prospects and MLB players who aren't even part of the future. In other words, we have alot to work with to be flexible in getting a deal done without mortgaging the future.

Teams need an excess of valuable prospects because not all of them hit. It's a numbers game, and honestly outside of Henderson and Rutschman are we really confident in saying that any of the others will be successful and fixture on the team for year's to come? Maybe Rodriguez gets added to the circle  of trust if he finishes strong, but the verdict is still out on everyone else. 

I also don't understand your point about MLB players who aren't part of the future in relation to an Ohtani trade. I'm all for trading those players, but the Angels will have aboslutely no interest in players like Santander, Mateo, Frazier, etc. They'll be looking for high level prospects + lower level prospects with upside. 

[HakunaSakata]

57 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

"Mortgaging the future" is the part of your post that I have questions about. I guess different fans/posters define that differently. But I don't think that a 2 month Ohtani rental is going o come at that cost.

You might not think it, but you're wrong. Someone will overpay for Ohtani. 

[Billy F-Face3]

1 minute ago, Malike said:

I thought we were talking realistic trades, of course I'd trade those players. Now, if you want to make a realistic proposal, I'd likely not take that trade.

He is asking what is "realistic" to you? Just like beauty, value is in the eye of the beholder.

[Greg Pappas]

8 minutes ago, Malike said:

I thought we were talking realistic trades, of course I'd trade those players. Now, if you want to make a realistic proposal, I'd likely not take that trade.

Ok, now we're getting somewhere.  You'd make that trade, so how much further would you go to be agreeable? BTW, it's not my intent to seem aggressive towards you, or whatever.  

Edited July 25, 2023 by Greg Pappas

[HakunaSakata]

52 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Granted leaning into a devil's advocate position here, but it is possible 2023 is the only year Felix Bautista's arm doesn't explode, and Shohei Ohtani is part of some other AL or NL team that eliminates BAL in the tournament.     

Like a pick six in football, a playoff Club that acquires Ohtani also denies him to 11 tournament competitors.     Arguably the 2-month portfolio risk is less than with Snell or Hader because if he has an arm owie, maybe he's still the best hitter in the league.    The blister bears watching, but in the dog days Tyler Wells and Nate Eovaldi and Gerrit Cole and Shohei Ohtani have all been taxed heavily this season.

Ohtani is the alpha dog for 2023 performance, and its basic duty for Mike Elias to learn as best he can the price point for any of the world's best baseball players that could be available in the coming week, even if just to do a proper job with a memo and policy recommendation to John Angelos.

Closer is one of the most volatile (and replacable) position in baseball. You're really going to hinge on your argument on us going all in this season on taking advantage of our closer's window for success? Even in playing devil's advocate that seems pretty ludicrous to me. 

[clapdiddy]

I know this probably isn't much of a factor, but how would attendance increase with Ohtani in the lineup?

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 minute ago, HakunaSakata said:

You might not think it, but you're wrong. Someone will overpay for Ohtani. 

I want to see the Yankees or Red Sox overpay for Ohtani only to get bounced in the wildcard round or not even make the playoffs with Ohtani signing with a west coast team in free agency.

My first choice is the Orioles get Ohtani, but I just don't see it happening unless the Angels do take an offer that doesn't include the likes of Holliday, Cowser or Kjerstad.

[Fan4Life]

1 minute ago, HakunaSakata said:

You might not think it, but you're wrong. Someone will overpay for Ohtani. 

Agreed. Like most I don't want it to be us, and don't expect it to be. As was pointed out earlier.. how many more wins does Otani give us over the next 60 games than Montgomery or Stroman etc. He doesn't guarantee us a WS ring, although we'd be the AL favorite to get there.  So for me, I am bottom 10 guys only for a rental otherwise I use them to get other pieces that may not be in total as productive, but hopefully productive enough. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Fan4Life said:

Agreed. Like most I don't want it to be us, and don't expect it to be. As was pointed out earlier.. how many more wins does Otani give us over the next 60 games than Montgomery or Stroman etc. He doesn't guarantee us a WS ring, although we'd be the AL favorite to get there.  So for me, I am bottom 10 guys only for a rental otherwise I use them to get other pieces that may not be in total as productive, but hopefully productive enough. 

Let's say two games.

Two games could easily be the difference in a division title instead of a wild card, or home field advantage in the wild card round (all three games).  I know I'd much rather the O's play three at home over three at the Trop for instance.

There is potential value in even incremental improvement.

[HakunaSakata]

Just now, Fan4Life said:

Agreed. Like most I don't want it to be us, and don't expect it to be. As was pointed out earlier.. how many more wins does Otani give us over the next 60 games than Montgomery or Stroman etc. He doesn't guarantee us a WS ring, although we'd be the AL favorite to get there.  So for me, I am bottom 10 guys only for a rental otherwise I use them to get other pieces that may not be in total as productive, but hopefully productive enough. 

It's how many wins Ohtani gives us over the next 60 games versus how many wins the players we traded for him will give us over the next six years. Some folks on this board seem to think we always have to go to extremes, but the idea is to find a happy balance between extreme moves and inactivity. There are plenty of other smaller trades that can be made to plug holes for this season withouth compromising the future of the franchise. And then during the offseason they can take it one step further and look to trade players like Santander, Hays, and Mountcastle if they feel comfortable turning off the reigns over to younger players. 

[Malike]

6 minutes ago, Greg Pappas said:

Ok, now we're getting somewhere.  You'd make that trade, so how much further would you go to be agreeable? 

I wouldn't go after Ohtani period. I think it's foolish to give up hundreds of millions of dollars of future value for a rental. I would target controllable assets and Ohtani guarantees us nothing. Now, I said yes to Norby and Beavers because I thought that was what you are proposing but I'm not sending top prospects for a 2 month rental.

[HakunaSakata]

5 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

I want to see the Yankees or Red Sox overpay for Ohtani only to get bounced in the wildcard round or not even make the playoffs with Ohtani signing with a west coast team in free agency.

My first choice is the Orioles get Ohtani, but I just don't see it happening unless the Angels do take an offer that doesn't include the likes of Holliday, Cowser or Kjerstad.

Agree 100% (i.e., let them be the ones to foolishly clear out their farm systems), but I personally don't see the Yanks or Sox making a big move like that this season. I think there's less than a 50% chance he gets traded at all, and if he does it's going to be to a West Coast team that thinks they can sign him long term. 

[Sanity Check]

The Angels will want at least 2 players to add to their core to build around for the future, and I don't think that is a Norby type, or even Ortiz considering they have Neto for many years to come, and he's the real deal.  Some of the names being thrown around as guys they can't have, are the type of guys they want.  Other names that "we Hangouters" want them to take will not get a deal done.  If I'm them, I want quality before quantity.....and ideally, Quality AND Quantity.

I guess we'll see how it plays out.

Edited July 25, 2023 by Sanity Check
added a word