Would you make this trade for Shane Bieber and Jose Ramirez

[Aristotelian]

I'd be interested in Bieber.  Not sure what Ramirez brings to the deal. Is he supposed to play 1B? I'd rather do a smaller deal for pitching. Quantrill is also interesting.

[bpilktree]

Bieber is interesting as the strikeouts have just disappeared this season as they were still decent last year.  He has less strikeouts that Bautista.  I don’t think you want your ace with less strikeouts then your closer.  He still knows how to pitch.  Maybe they will be interested in Mountcastle to upgrade from their horrible decision to sign Joshua Bell to all that money.  

[ArtVanDelay]

4 minutes ago, oriole said:

I believe Ramirez has a no trade clause so he’s off the table. 
 

As far as Bieber goes, I think you’re gonna need to do something like Mullins for him. Just because his K/9 is down doesn’t mean he isn’t an ace still. They’ll obviously want proven major league talent since they’re still in the playoff hunt. Mullins has an extra year of control so the Guardians may need to throw in someone like George Valera to make it happen. But for those humoring a Santander for Bieber trade are not thinking in reality. Not even close to being close.

Yes it does.  Aces strike people out. 

[Just Regular]

58 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

His stats are more proven and much better than anyone on our staff, and I think most people would say yes.  Am I missing something?

Four year scan of K/9: 14.2, 12.5, 8.9, 6.2

He's still a good pitcher, but I believe he's crossed the line towards more like today's Greinke than Hall of Fame Greinke.

[bpilktree]

It won’t happen but I think a Mountcastle, Norby, and lower level pitching prospect for Bieber would be a pretty fair deal.  That opens up 1st for Westburg/Santander and Norby doesn’t have much chance he to play in the majors but is still top 100 prospect.  

[oriole]

8 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

So you're just going to give up one of our top 3 most valuable everyday players for a guy who might possibly be being overrated, and only plays half a game once every 5 days?

What is up with the people around here? Can I interest you in a $50 Hot Dog? Step right up!

I didn’t say I’d do it. I’m saying that what it’d cost to get him. Can I interest you in a course in reading comprehension? 

[oriole]

7 minutes ago, ArtVanDelay said:

Yes it does.  Aces strike people out. 

He’d be the ace on this team and he’s still one of the better pitchers in the league. Maybe ace is a subjective term, and I get what you’re saying about the importance of striking people out, but it’s not like he’s completely fallen off a cliff. We can’t all just find a former ace who has a period of struggles and start acting like Santander is a comparable player. That’s facebook level stuff.

[Sports Guy]

The big drop in missed bats is a concern.

I would take him. We have certainly seen guys that were “done” bounce back and be very good but I’m not giving up this level of  prospect.

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, oriole said:

He’d be the ace on this team and he’s still one of the better pitchers in the league. Maybe ace is a subjective term, and I get what you’re saying about the importance of striking people out, but it’s not like he’s completely fallen off a cliff. We can’t all just find a former ace who has a period of struggles and start acting like Santander is a comparable player. That’s facebook level stuff.

I would say 6.2 is falling off a cliff.  It ranks him 66th out of 71 qualified pitchers. 

[Just Regular]

I do think CLE could have a SP to trade and soon.     Civale and McKenzie are in the AAA rotation now.

I also believe they could use Santander on a win-win type exchange among contenders because they have Arms and need Bats, and even they could pay him 1/8 like we pay Frazier 1/8.     They even went 2/33 on Josh Bell to support their Bieber-Ramirez roster.

It isn't impossible to picture scenarios where they still challenge for Central title as intended and trade Bieber because his $$$/WAR is going bad.     McKenzie, Tanner Bibee and Gavin Williams could be the three bosses by October, and maybe Bieber can consult with Kyle Gibson what happens to the SP4 that month.

[Frobby]

I don’t think Ramirez really fits our needs, though he’s a great player.  I think the swap is pretty fair but I’m not sure I like it strategically.  

[Billy F-Face3]

3 minutes ago, oriole said:

I didn’t say I’d do it. I’m saying that what it’d cost to get him. Can I interest you in a course in reading comprehension? 

I read your post perfectly. Twice. My reaction is still exactly the same.

[Sanity Check]

16 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I'd be interested in Bieber.  Not sure what Ramirez brings to the deal. Is he supposed to play 1B? I'd rather do a smaller deal for pitching. Quantrill is also interesting.

Ramirez would bring us a consistent major league proven bat, middle of the order, to play 2nd or 3rd base.  Gunnar would play the other one for now in my mind.  Then we don't need Frazier for his left-handed bat at 2nd base....plus he'd be around a while.

All of this assumes that he would approve being moved to Baltimore if he has a no-trade clause.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I would say 6.2 is falling off a cliff.  It ranks him 66th out of 71 qualified pitchers. 

I’m looking forward to seeing him pitch so I can get a feel for why he’s having pretty steady success despite his K rate decline.  

[DirtyBird]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’m looking forward to seeing him pitch so I can get a feel for why he’s having pretty steady success despite his K rate decline.  

I am pretty sure his k/9 rate will be higher vs us