TT: Hyde's bullpen management is going to sink this team unless he changes

[Tony-OH]

Brandon "Capt Hook" Hyde definitely loves to take guys out the second they run into trouble. That includes starter's from the 6th inning on and relievers.

The Orioles have used their relievers in 197 games, topped only by Miami's 198. The closest AL East team is Tampa at 185 games. The Orioles bullpen have blown a league leading 12 save opportunities (tied with 6 other teams). The Orioles use their relievers for an average of 17 pitches, tied for second lowest behind only the Mariners and Blue Jays at 16.

Now obviously sometimes it just makes sense because a guy does not have it and need to come out. And the starter's inability to pitch much past 90-95 pitches effectively very often is a problem as well. 

But my biggest problem is Hyde's use of 3, 4 or even 5 pitchers to get through 3+ innings of normal work a game.

Now, the Orioles are carrying three guys in Voth, Akin and Baumann that should be able to provide length but he rarely brings them in and let's them eat more than two innings. In an 8-3 game, why couldn't Akin pitch the last three innings in that game last night. If Akin can't go three innings without allowing five runs he doesn't belong in the big leagues.

The Orioles have six relievers who have pitched in 23 or more of the team's 55 games. A quick look around the AL East for relievers with 23 or more games shows:

Tampa - 1
NY - 3
Tor - 3
Bos- 0

Last night Gibson did not do his job and it was frustrating to watch, and it might have been the right call to have Baker come in an get that final out. But once he did, he should have gone to Akin to eat innings. Instead Baker struggled, then Coulombe struggled and he ended up having to use Cano for 1.1 innings and Bautista is a game the team was up 8-3 when the starter left the game.

So first off, Hyde needs to expect more from his starters and leave them out there longer when he can. I don't know whether it's a Hyde thing or an organizational thing, but they just don't let their starter's go much past 95 pitches.

Starts with more than 95 pitches or more:

Bradish - 0 (most 94 pitches and only one other start over 90 pitches)
Kremer - 2 of 11 starts (3 exactly at 95 pitches, 1 over 100)
Wells - 7 or 11 (3 at 95, 2 at 96, 2 over 100)
Gibson - 7 of 12 (3 at 95, 3 at 96, only 1 over 100)
Rodriguez - 2 of 10 (1 over 100)

Now I glanced around and keeping starter under 100 pitches seems to be more of the norm, but one, those starters are getting deeper into games and when they don't, most team seem to have those bulk relievers that will eat up some innings. 

This comes back to Hyde's usage of Voth, Baumann and Akin.

Akin was the most misused as a situational lefty vs a bulk reliever this year. Akin has been used in 15 games at the major league level and only pitched 13 innings while only pitching two or more innings one (exactly 2 innings). 

Voth, who has proven he takes awhile to warm up and should not be brought into mid inning situations when he has to warm up quickly, has pitched 26.1 innings in 18 games. But, he's only pitched 3 or more innings (bulk reliever appearance) in one game this year and was exactly at 3 innings. In 12 of his 18 appearances he's pitched in less than 2 innings of work.

Baumann has pitched 27.2 innings but in a whopping 24 games. He's pitched two or more innings only 4 times. He was really overused in mid-April when Hyde ran him out there 5 times in 11 days for 7.1 innings. He then allowed ten runs over his next 8.1 innings over 9 appearances.

Obviously Cano and Bautista have been the two best relievers but they are being used a ton. Baker has been used a ton too.

Bautista and Baker leads the team with 26 appearances which is tied for 3rd most appearances in the MLB with only Cleveland's closer Emmanuel Clase being the only closer with more appearances at 27 (though he's thrown one less inning than Felix).

Cano 29 innings is the 11th most in MLB with most above him being bulk relievers. Only Justin Lawrence and Scott McLough have pitched in more games with more innings.

Unless Hyde changes his ways or all of the Orioles relievers show they all have rubber arms, we're going to start seeing relievers melt down. We've seen this at times with Baumann, Baker (who has been the most abused) and now Coulombe. Even Cano has not looked as sharp though some regression was expected there.

If Hyde would just use his bulk relievers in games for three innings with 4 or more run leads or down 4 or more, it would help alleviate some of these problems in my opinion. 

 

 

[Sports Guy]

Akin probably being used today for length.

[glenn__davis]

I have to assume that the SigBot 3000 dictates a lot of this bullpen usage.  Even when Hyde has long men at his disposal, he rarely uses them.  I bet that somewhere they have data that says that more frequent shorter outings are better than less frequent longer outings.  Guys like Baumann, Akin, Irvin when he was out there, these guys should easily be able to go 2-3innings and it seems that they're rarely asked to do so.

All of that said, I don't necessarily disagree, I just assume that's an organizational philosophy and not just a Hyde thing.

[Gofannon]

The O's manage Kyle Bradish the same way I managed my son's 13u travel team's arms, following the Little League Pitch Smart guidelines and capping pitches at 95.  Heck, they almost follow the guidelines for 11u and 12u, capping it at 85 pitches.

[turtlebowl]

It just looks like the bullpen is being managed every game like it is the 7th game of the WS.  I agree this is unstainable for a whole season. 

You can't panic if you are up 3 runs, bring in a reliever and they give up a couple of hits.  If they come in and pitch 3 innings, allow 4 hits a 1 run they did their job and you win the game without taxing your high leverage guys.  You have to have relievers on your team that can handle this role which shouldn't be asking a whole lot.  I think we do but unfortunately the trust isn't there to let the do their job. 

[Frobby]

Great OP and lots of good data in there, @Tony-OH.

I think there are two issues here: (1) innings from the starters, and (2) allocation of innings among the bullpen guys.  

As I just posted elsewhere, the O’s are 8th in the AL in IP/start, and their 5.3 average is exactly league average. In May, the O’s are actually 5th in the AL in IP/start, at 5.6.  So, I can’t really say Hyde is doing anything radical with his starters.  

As to bullpen usage, I think the O’s have been impacted by the fact that they play so few blowout games, drastically fewer than most teams when I checked this recently.  They don’t have many opportunities to just hand one low-leverage guy the ball and go for 2+ innings because the game is out of hand anyway.   

That said, I do agree that Hyde needs to be a bit more willing to let volume relievers soak up some innings.   It would be nice if someone actually did that job well consistently.  Last year, Akin did a great job of that in the first half of the season.  Baumann has shown some flashes of doing it, but he’s been inconsistent.  


 

[btdart20]

27 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

I have to assume that the SigBot 3000 dictates a lot of this bullpen usage.  Even when Hyde has long men at his disposal, he rarely uses them.  I bet that somewhere they have data that says that more frequent shorter outings are better than less frequent longer outings.  Guys like Baumann, Akin, Irvin when he was out there, these guys should easily be able to go 2-3innings and it seems that they're rarely asked to do so.

All of that said, I don't necessarily disagree, I just assume that's an organizational philosophy and not just a Hyde thing.

This passes the sniff test.  I bet the data is more driven off game-to-game match-up type thing vs. the marathon of a season.  If it's a limitation of the data provided, then it's a functional philosophy whether or not that's the intent.

Cano's durability is an X factor given his limited IP history even in the minors.  We should be tapping the brakes on his availability.

Akin and Baumann can definitely get more IPs.  

DL Hall is in the wings.  Along with Bazardo, Garrett, Hernandez, Vespi, Vallimont.  So maybe the thought is to drive them like you stole them then just rinse/repeat with the next guy.

[btdart20]

Another thought is that the opponent matters too.  A win against a divisional rival or a potential WC competitor matters a little more than against the Oakland's of the world.  Sure, all W's matter.  But so do L's for the opponents.  I wonder how the usage/IP allocation among RPs is done in these types of games?

[Sports Guy]

48 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

I have to assume that the SigBot 3000 dictates a lot of this bullpen usage.  Even when Hyde has long men at his disposal, he rarely uses them.  I bet that somewhere they have data that says that more frequent shorter outings are better than less frequent longer outings.  Guys like Baumann, Akin, Irvin when he was out there, these guys should easily be able to go 2-3innings and it seems that they're rarely asked to do so.

All of that said, I don't necessarily disagree, I just assume that's an organizational philosophy and not just a Hyde thing.

Yea I think this is right.  No way Hyde is doing this on his own.

[Tony-OH]

50 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

I have to assume that the SigBot 3000 dictates a lot of this bullpen usage.  Even when Hyde has long men at his disposal, he rarely uses them.  I bet that somewhere they have data that says that more frequent shorter outings are better than less frequent longer outings.  Guys like Baumann, Akin, Irvin when he was out there, these guys should easily be able to go 2-3innings and it seems that they're rarely asked to do so.

All of that said, I don't necessarily disagree, I just assume that's an organizational philosophy and not just a Hyde thing.

You very well be right since I don't think anyone really knows what decisions Hyde makes and what is dictated to him. Either way, this bullpen usage is going to blow guys out unless they start finding ways to get them more rest. 

[MCO'sFan]

52 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

I have to assume that the SigBot 3000 dictates a lot of this bullpen usage.  Even when Hyde has long men at his disposal, he rarely uses them.  I bet that somewhere they have data that says that more frequent shorter outings are better than less frequent longer outings.  Guys like Baumann, Akin, Irvin when he was out there, these guys should easily be able to go 2-3innings and it seems that they're rarely asked to do so.

All of that said, I don't necessarily disagree, I just assume that's an organizational philosophy and not just a Hyde thing.

I think you are correct. It seems like managers are making less and less decisions. This seems like man org thing to me. Cash pretty much admitted it when he got blasted for taking Snell out of the WS. Hyde seems more like a guy following the direction of the GM than a guy managing his own games. 

[Tony-OH]

19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Great OP and lots of good data in there, @Tony-OH.

I think there are two issues here: (1) innings from the starters, and (2) allocation of innings among the bullpen guys.  

As I just posted elsewhere, the O’s are 8th in the AL in IP/start, and their 5.3 average is exactly league average. In May, the O’s are actually 5th in the AL in IP/start, at 5.6.  So, I can’t really say Hyde is doing anything radical with his starters.  

As to bullpen usage, I think the O’s have been impacted by the fact that they play so few blowout games, drastically fewer than most teams when I checked this recently.  They don’t have many opportunities to just hand one low-leverage guy the ball and go for 2+ innings because the game is out of hand anyway.   

That said, I do agree that Hyde needs to be a bit more willing to let volume relievers soak up some innings.   It would be nice if someone actually did that job well consistently.  Last year, Akin did a great job of that in the first half of the season.  Baumann has shown some flashes of doing it, but he’s been inconsistent.  


 

Part of the issue I've seen is the second that bulk reliever gets in a little trouble, he gets yanked which requires a series of relievers to now be used. I understand that concern in close games, and the Orioles have played a lot of close games, but I do not like when Hyde consistently is using 4 relievers to finish off a game in which he was once up by five runs. 

Maybe Baumann would be more consistent in a long man role where he gets three days between appearances vs the inconsistent roles he's been put in this year.

[Tony-OH]

Just now, MCO'sFan said:

I think you are correct. It seems like managers are making less and less decisions. This seems like man org thing to me. Cash pretty much admitted it when he got blasted for taking Snell out of the WS. Hyde seems more like a guy following the direction of the GM than a guy managing his own games. 

I agree, but Elias always says in game decisions are Hyde's. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

You very well be right since I don't think anyone really knows what decisions Hyde makes and what is dictated to him. Either way, this bullpen usage is going to blow guys out unless they start finding ways to get them more rest. 

Is this years usage any different than last year?  Any real difference from how Tampa has been in recent years?

I mean, we all say “if so and so doesn’t stop throwing so many innings, they will implode”…but is there any truth in that or something we are all just making up because it sounds like it would be true.

I kind of remember posts last year about how we are going to run the pen into the ground and they were a top 10 pen and that is after trading their best reliever for most of the year.

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I agree, but Elias always says in game decisions are Hyde's. 

Sure but I bet those in game decisions are made with the data he is given and conversations they have.