TT: Hyde's bullpen management is going to sink this team unless he changes

[AnythingO's]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Personally, I don't think the analytics are capable of understanding all the nuances that go into how to keep a pen fresh and in roles they are most capable of performing well. Pitchers tend to pitch better in defined roles. Besides Cano and Bautista, I'm not sure there is another pitcher with a defined role. Now Perez pitched his way out of a defined role so that one is not on Hyde and the Orioles, but it just seems so scattershot.

This captures my thoughts better than I could, "scattershot", undefined roles. Perez and Baker were used successfully to setup Bautista after Lopez trade. This year Cano steps up and we have 2 closers but Cano is used as setup role. Perez and Baker get pushed to earlier innings and are less effective. Coincidence or correlation? Baker, Bauman, Akin have options as do Irvin, Zimm, and other 1-inning guys at Norfolk but the Norfolk shuttle isn't being used despite Hyde burning guys up. You bring in Hicks when you have Cameron performing in AAA. You try a host of guys as backup 1B while you have Diaz performing at AAA. Vavra is redundant with Urias and is no COF. The roster construction is a quandary even before you get to the real prospects knocking on the door. Maybe ME is saving bullets for the trade deadline, maybe.....

[sportsfan8703]

Baker and Baumann have been taxed recently. 
 

We saw a very worn out bullpen yesterday. A bullpen game with a lefty opener was the 100% right move with the status of the AAA SP.  

We really don’t have a lot of flexibility with Givens back. Gilaspie has gotten rocked his last few appearances. Vespi would’ve been a 4th lefty. 
 

In hindsight, we probably should’ve started Grayson and took the time to line up a replacement plan behind him. I know Grayson is on the struggle bus, but he did face two red hot lineups in games balls were jumping outta OPACY. 

[OriolesMagic83]

One good thing with relievers vs. starters is that you pick what length a reliever will pitch.  Even with starters being expected to not pitch as long, the expectation is that a starter will pitch 5 innings or at least try to whether their stuff is good or not.  I've noticed that a reliever can be lights out, and get thru an inning in 9 pitches w/ great stuff and still not be kept in for a 2nd inning.  Just like starters, relievers have good and bad days.  If a reliever is on and dominant, get that extra inning (this is for the O's non backend relievers, Bautista, Cano, maybe Baker). 

[Billy F-Face3]

3 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

One good thing with relievers vs. starters is that you pick what length a reliever will pitch.  Even with starters being expected to not pitch as long, the expectation is that a starter will pitch 5 innings or at least try to whether their stuff is good or not.  I've noticed that a reliever can be lights out, and get thru an inning in 9 pitches w/ great stuff and still not be kept in for a 2nd inning.  Just like starters, relievers have good and bad days.  If a reliever is on and dominant, get that extra inning (this is for the O's non backend relievers, Bautista, Cano, maybe Baker). 

And the more relievers you throw in, the more chances there are that you're going to get a guy who's having a bad day with his stuff not working.

[Billy F-Face3]

And ever since Tony said it in the original post, I can't get "Captain Hook" out of my mind. From now on, that's what I'm going to call Brandon Hyde LOL.

[eddie83]

5 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Baker and Baumann have been taxed recently. 
 

We saw a very worn out bullpen yesterday. A bullpen game with a lefty opener was the 100% right move with the status of the AAA SP.  

We really don’t have a lot of flexibility with Givens back. Gilaspie has gotten rocked his last few appearances. Vespi would’ve been a 4th lefty. 
 

In hindsight, we probably should’ve started Grayson and took the time to line up a replacement plan behind him. I know Grayson is on the struggle bus, but he did face two red hot lineups in games balls were jumping outta OPACY. 

Baumann had 3 days off then threw 13 pitches on the 29th and struggled yesterday after another off day. 
 

Baker looked good yesterday. 

[Fan4Life]

Is there ever a case to not mind a loss for a greater good? For example, the bullpen game, could you have 3 pitchers in mind that will throw at least 3 innings regardless of their effectiveness? And if by some chance going into the 7th you have a chance to win the game (within 2 runs perhaps), then maybe you veer from that plan? What ended up happening was about as bad as you could play it.  

I have notice over the years, and recently, not just the O's,

1) A starting pitcher will be throwing great through 6-ish, then gives up a seeing eye ground ball hit, then an error or another weakly hit ball that lands in the right place, the manager removes the pitcher, the reliever comes in and blows the game. 

2) A reliever come in, has all his tuff working in a close game and mows through a lineup in the 7th, and 8th, or just the 8th, brings in a closer or another pitcher to follow him, gets hammered, lose game. 

Seems to me baseball should be more about flow than arbitrary ideas about what someone can or should do.  I suppose the guys blowing it are professionals and should do their job, but I see this happen often.

 

[Frobby]

On 5/31/2023 at 5:03 PM, banks703 said:

These guys are toast either way. The Guardians are garbage and they're getting boat raced again today because they don't have enough pitching. 

 

It was fun while it lasted but they just aren't going to be able to compete unless they get help on the mound. 

 

I know I know sky is falling, overreaction, yadda yadda. I wrote it then; the skull-dragging by the Rangers took something out of them. Then they lose Ced. They're headed in the wrong direction in a bad way. 

That really does sound like a sky is falling post.  

[banks703]

16 hours ago, Frobby said:

That really does sound like a sky is falling post.  

 

It kind of is... they got exposed by Texas and Cleveland. Don't get me wrong, I am thoroughly enjoying this season's success and I didn't think they were going to win 100+ games this year but I just don't think that they have enough to compete for a playoff spot with the current roster, specifically the pitching and hitting against LH pitching. 

 

Overall they are so much better than last year but the bullpen is already showing signs it may not hold up over 162 games (they're over worked because the starters aren't consistently going deep enough into games) and while the offensive numbers were encouraging in April, they tailed off a lot in May as they ran into some good teams with good pitching and Jorge gave them virtually nothing over the 28 games. Mostly though, I just don't have confidence that management is fully committed to doing what would be required to win this year.

 

They only have to play .500 baseball the rest of the way to finish the year 88-74. That's pretty outstanding considering that they lost 110 games two years back. If they're two games better than that they'll win 90 games, which will probably not be enough to get them into the post-season, which was supposed to be the goal this year...but I don't see them making any moves to further the improvement. 

 

So, on some level the sky is falling @Frobby

Edited June 2, 2023 by banks703

[SilverRocket]

Right on time.

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

I, of course, don't know the ins and outs but I have to think that actual medical records by an actual doctor have to be present showing an actual medical condition.

Hopefully the issue is responsible for the less than stellar results we have been seeing.

[PsychoBird68]

Talking about hollering before your hurt...LOL...our bullpen is tied for the most wins at 16 and have the most SVO at 33 and they have the 6th best ERA at 3.44 and that's the only reason we are 15 game above 500 and we're 9th in Innings pitched but we do have 9 losses as a bullpen but that could be a lot worse considering we only have 3 guys that has pitched consistent which is why Hyde has a short leash but I'm sure if he left some of those middle relievers in longer and we lost 8 or 10 more of them SVO you all would at least think he was managing the bullpen correctly.... SMH.....  

[Jagwar]

At the beginning of the year I was thinking the priorities at the trade deadline were Starter, then a MOO. Now I think that the priorities are Starter, then a Setup reliever who can close

[ChuckS]

2 hours ago, Jagwar said:

At the beginning of the year I was thinking the priorities at the trade deadline were Starter, then a MOO. Now I think that the priorities are Starter, then a Setup reliever who can close

You can never have too many shutdown bullpen arms but Bautista is our closer and he’s been excellent. 

[sportsfan8703]

Was this a good plan?

Kremer 1-6

Coulumbe 7

Cano 8

Bautista 9

Funny how that happens…