Cardinals are open for business

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Not really sure who Jeff Jones is. The only reason that makes sense is his refusal to waive his NTC

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Jeff Jones is a freelance sports writer and member of the Baseball Writers Association of America. He is a frequent contributor to the Belleville News-Democrat, mlb.com and other sports websites.

The idea is that the Cardinals are not going into full tank rebuild (that isn't the only way) and in fact might extend him two years and have him retire as a Card.

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The idea is that the Cardinals are not going into full tank rebuild (that isn't the only way) and in fact might extend him two years and have him retire as a Card.

They’re going to trade two solid SPs and 3 bats but not start over. Ok 

I d swim across the Chesapeake when Angelos approves 39 million for a season and a half of a trade acquisition 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

They’re going to trade two solid SPs and 3 bats but not start over. Ok 

I d swim across the Chesapeake when Angelos approves 39 million for a season and a half of a trade acquisition 

Some teams don't believe in full tear downs.

It's been decades since the Cards have had to contemplate something like this.

 

 

[Just Regular]

Their present .422 winning percentage is the franchise's lowest since 1924, despite a 12-win season from Rogers Hornsby, and the managing chops of Branch Rickey.

[24fps]

3 hours ago, NCRaven said:

The love for non-firstbasemen firstbasemen amuses me know end.  I have not seen a single report that says Kjerstad plays a good first base.  I love me some Kjerstad.  In right field.  If the O's are serious about replacing Mountcastle, who we all know I like a lot, then Coby Mayo should be playing 1st base every day in Norfolk.

I can't speak for anybody else's desire to see Kjerstad move to 1B, but mine stems from Eric Longenhagen's writeup on Coby Mayo prior to this season.  Following is the pertinent section:

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Drafted and mostly deployed as a third baseman, Mayo has projected as a right fielder since his draft year because of his size. He is more than capable of making a subset of plays at third, where his range and lateral agility are both plus, but he really struggles to make plays coming in on the grass. He actually looks more comfortable and accurate making max-effort throws from deep in the hole than he does when moving toward the first base line. Baltimore has tried him some at second and first base, but because he’ll show you a 70 arm on his best throws and runs pretty well, right field continues to feel like the best long-term fit even though Mayo hasn’t played there yet. The toolset to profile as a 50 in right is arguably already in place, and there’s a chance Mayo ends up with 70 raw at peak and becomes a star out there.

So it's not about Kjerstad's suitability for 1B but Mayo's tools potentially fitting best in RF that is behind my suggestion.  It's too early to write Mountcastle off as he will get the rest of the season to demonstrate that he still belongs and unless he's traded this year or during the offseason, spring training as well.  He reaches Arb 1 in 2024 and is about to get more expensive while both Kjerstad and Mayo will soon be ML-ready.   Mountcastle needs to get back to hitting RHP without delay because I don't see room or need for a platoon next year.

[sportsfan8703]

5 hours ago, HakunaSakata said:

I hate t break it to you, but there is very little chance they trade for someone you consider a "difference maker" this season. 

Giolito and Robertson are difference makers. Rentals too. 

[SpOkane]

5 hours ago, e16bball said:

Chris Stratton is a guy that might be of interest at a lower price. He fares extremely well in the Stuff+ and PitchingBot type analyses, and the K/BB rates look very nice this year (2.97 FIP). Making $2.8M in the last year of arbitration.

I still think they’re going to be hesitant to jump into the deep end with the prospect for veteran trades, which could make guys like this a little more appealing. Plus, I think there’s a good chance they may want to add two guys, so he might be a nice second reliever to pick up.

Stratton and Barlow from KC would solidify the bullpen.

[Billy F-Face3]

 

[FlipTheBird]

7 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

They’re going to trade two solid SPs and 3 bats but not start over. Ok 

I d swim across the Chesapeake when Angelos approves 39 million for a season and a half of a trade acquisition 

The pitchers mentioned are all on expiring contracts, makes sense to send them packing.

The bats mentioned are all sketchy at best. O’Neil is never healthy. Dejong is a low average, low OBP guy who will not be worth the $12 million club option the Cardinals have on him. And Edman is a light stick. He’s versatile, sure, but they’ve got Brendan Donovan who can do the same stuff but also hit.

They could move everyone on that list, get some ok return, spend a little in the winter and be frisky next year, no problem. They aren’t key parts the way Paul Goldschmidt is.

[HakunaSakata]

13 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Giolito and Robertson are difference makers. Rentals too. 

I don't consider either of those players difference makers. A difference maker is a top 10ish SP (Burnes, Cease, Scherezer, Alcantara, etc.) that everyone seems to think are realistic trade targets (they aren't). I also don' think they need to trade for a difference maker to make the playoffs. Just bolster the bullpen and add another solid (if not spectacular) arm to the rotation and address the bigger issue via free agency or trade in the off season. They'll be in a much better position to trade then too because they can put players like Santander, Hays and Mountcastle on the block. Players they probably can't trade in season while they're contending because of the risk. 

[sportsfan8703]

15 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Some teams don't believe in full tear downs.

It's been decades since the Cards have had to contemplate something like this.

 

 

I don’t think the Cards have to rebuild. Sure, they’ll sell some rental FAs like Montgomery and Hicks. Overall, I think it just wasn’t there year, and everything kind of went wrong. They have some good young players to pair with Arenado and Goldy. They just need to retool their rotation and bullpen. 

[jamalshw]

It seems the general consensus is no on Flaherty and yes on Montgomery. I'm actually somewhat interested in Flaherty, but it really depends on the price point and what Elias and Sig think of Flaherty. If he is what he is at this point and they think is 2023 production represents about what we can expect from him (when healthy) moving forward, I'm not interested as the upgrade is minimal. If, however, they feel that he can get back to his 2019 production--or at least more his 2021 production--then, I'm quite interested provided his cost is based on his 2023 production.

As to Montgomery, I have interest in him and he's probably on a shortlist of starters I'd target along with Giolito.

[Jim'sKid26]

5 minutes ago, jamalshw said:

It seems the general consensus is no on Flaherty and yes on Montgomery. I'm actually somewhat interested in Flaherty, but it really depends on the price point and what Elias and Sig think of Flaherty. If he is what he is at this point and they think is 2023 production represents about what we can expect from him (when healthy) moving forward, I'm not interested as the upgrade is minimal. If, however, they feel that he can get back to his 2019 production--or at least more his 2021 production--then, I'm quite interested provided his cost is based on his 2023 production.

As to Montgomery, I have interest in him and he's probably on a shortlist of starters I'd target along with Giolito.

If Flaherty is healthy he can be a ToR type starter. Unfortunately the numbers imply that his best days may be behind him. But if he is underperforming but on the mend and can get back to his previous self he's exactly what the club needs. Do you take a flyer on him. This is where the scouts and the analytics people make their impact felt.

[HakunaSakata]

53 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

If Flaherty is healthy he can be a ToR type starter. Unfortunately the numbers imply that his best days may be behind him. But if he is underperforming but on the mend and can get back to his previous self he's exactly what the club needs. Do you take a flyer on him. This is where the scouts and the analytics people make their impact felt.

Blaming Flaherty's inconsistencies on health seems like a straw man's argument. He's given up 97 hits in 92 innings and walked 48 batters (which almost leads all of baseball). There's no path to success with those numbers and absolutely no scenario where you trade for (or trust) that type of pitcher to help with a playoff run. 

[HakunaSakata]

1 hour ago, jamalshw said:

It seems the general consensus is no on Flaherty and yes on Montgomery. I'm actually somewhat interested in Flaherty, but it really depends on the price point and what Elias and Sig think of Flaherty. If he is what he is at this point and they think is 2023 production represents about what we can expect from him (when healthy) moving forward, I'm not interested as the upgrade is minimal. If, however, they feel that he can get back to his 2019 production--or at least more his 2021 production--then, I'm quite interested provided his cost is based on his 2023 production.

As to Montgomery, I have interest in him and he's probably on a shortlist of starters I'd target along with Giolito.

Why? He's given up more hits than IPed and is among the MLB league leaders in walks. There's absolutely nothing in Flaherty's numbers this season that point to him being a pitcher you can depend on and trust. We're talking about ramping up for a playoff run, not trading for a project. If they want to pursue Flaherty in the offseason (and think they can fix him) that's fine, but now isn't the time.