Update on the lease negotiations

[Going Underground]

1 hour ago, accinfo said:

The issue is John Angelos who operates the Baltimore Orioles and MASN, but doesn't own either, is not a billionaire and is probably not that wealthy.  Peter Angelos still owns the Orioles and he is incapacitated.  It also appears the biggest part of Peter Angelos wealth left is just the value of the Orioles.  His law firm, where he earned his wealth, appears to be gone without him running it.  So that leaves the Orioles with just the earnings they generate from the team.  Where most sports owners like the Ravens owners and most else have wealth coming in from their other business.  They are not going to spend money until Peter Angelos is no longer with us.  I highly doubt John Angelos will be able to buy the Orioles from his father's estate and the Orioles will eventually have newer much more stable, at least financially, ownership.  When that happens is just not known.  I don't think owning a small market baseball team is a license to print money like owning any NFL team is.  

Peter had many properties that the family has sold over the last few years.How much income that generated I have no idea. 

 

Orioles owner Peter Angelos sells Baltimore County shopping center for $15.1M. Foxtail Center changed hands in January. The center is located on busy York Road in Timonium. Orioles owner Peter Angelos has sold a high-profile suburban shopping center for $15.1 million.Feb 21, 2023

[LTO's]

19 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Was the main reason he lucked into Elias the fact that Elias was advocating a massive cut cutting teardown?

They lucked into Elias because he advocated for something they were already doing before him and were obviously going to do no matter what? Sometimes incompetent people do something good. That's all that happened here. 

[SemperFi]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I mean the hate is real but it goes beyond that.

They also don't want the hassle of dealing with the fallout of Baltimore losing a team and OPACY being empty.

They also want to get that sweet expansion money and yet another team possibly moving would slow that money train down.

Overpromise and underdeliver-the Angelos family mantra.

There are two main reasons the Orioles won't and can't move: expansion money (as you note) and secondly MLB holds a good portion of Orioles debt and MLB detests the Angelos's.           

 

[foxfield]

4 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Was the main reason he lucked into Elias the fact that Elias was advocating a massive cut cutting teardown?

They won 54 games in 2018....I don't think anyone was going to advocate just a couple million more.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, foxfield said:

They won 54 games in 2018....I don't think anyone was going to advocate just a couple million more.

I don't think most of the folks interviewing were advocating a bottom 2 payroll for the next five years, or a plan built around losing 100+ games for 4-5 years in a row.

[spiritof66]

4 hours ago, SemperFi said:

Overpromise and underdeliver-the Angelos family mantra.

There are two main reasons the Orioles won't and can't move: expansion money (as you note) and secondly MLB holds a good portion of Orioles debt and MLB detests the Angelos's.           

 

No team other than the A's and Rays is going anywhere until after those two finalize their future plans -- meaning, in each case, a new stadium that taxpayers will bear some of the cost of -- and expansion to two new cities. A group led by Dave Stewart (the former pitcher, not the former Eurythmic) is hoping to land an expansion franchise in Nashville.

MLB's position is that a well run franchise can succeed in any big city, so long as the team has an appealing stadium built wholly or in part with public funding. The MLB owners won't approve a move from Baltimore during the lifetime of anyone who posts on here.

[foxfield]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think most of the folks interviewing were advocating a bottom 2 payroll for the next five years, or a plan built around losing 100+ games for 4-5 years in a row.

So you think that is what Elias did?  Funny....he ripped everything apart and lost 100 games twice.  Not 4 and not 5 times.  

And in neither of those seasons did he lose as many games as his predecessor did in 2018 while.....wait for it....

Going for it!

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, foxfield said:

So you think that is what Elias did?  Funny....he ripped everything apart and lost 100 games twice.  Not 4 and not 5 times.  

And in neither of those seasons did he lose as many games as his predecessor did in 2018 while.....wait for it....

Going for it!

I think the plan was to collect as many #1 picks as he could from at least 2019-2021 ( I think 2022 was supposed to be closer to 90 losses). 

Yes they ended up with the #2 pick one year and the covid year messed them up and they ended up with the fifth pick that year.  They sure didn't win more games in 2019 by dint of roster construction.  You can't look at the team they sent out there in 2019 and say with a straight face that the goal wasn't to get another #1 pick, they didn't see the Tigers coming in and losing 114. 

As for not getting 100 loses in 2020?  Kinda hard to lose 100 in a 60 game season.  The way that team was trending I do think they would have lost 100 over 162.

[foxfield]

12 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think most of the folks interviewing were advocating a bottom 2 payroll for the next five years, or a plan built around losing 100+ games for 4-5 years in a row.

 

11 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think the plan was to collect as many #1 picks as he could from at least 2019-2021 ( I think 2022 was supposed to be closer to 90 losses). 

Yes they ended up with the #2 pick one year and the covid year messed them up and they ended up with the fifth pick that year.  They sure didn't win more games in 2019 by dint of roster construction.  You can't look at the team they sent out there in 2019 and say with a straight face that the goal wasn't to get another #1 pick, they didn't see the Tigers coming in and losing 114. 

As for not getting 100 loses in 2020?  Kinda hard to lose 100 in a 60 game season.  The way that team was trending I do think they would have lost 100 over 162.

So which do you think it was....losing 100 games for 4-5 years in a row?  Or Losing 100 2-3 seasons in a row.

Personally, I think the plan was to focus on completely rebuilding the minor league and player acquisition and development of the franchise and if that meant losing at the ML level then so be it.  I think the plan was/is pretty much on track and I do agree with you that Covid impacted all plans in 2020.

I doubt we disagree much here.  It's semantics.  But you are pretty consistent in pointing out when people state things as fact that are opinion.  I was just doing the same.

At any rate, as much as I loathe the Angelos family, I think John Angelos has to get credit for hiring Elias.   It is still to be determined whether Elias can navigate from a competitive standpoint, but the rebuilding and development questions have largely been answered.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, foxfield said:

 

So which do you think it was....losing 100 games for 4-5 years in a row?  Or Losing 100 2-3 seasons in a row.

Personally, I think the plan was to focus on completely rebuilding the minor league and player acquisition and development of the franchise and if that meant losing at the ML level then so be it.  I think the plan was/is pretty much on track and I do agree with you that Covid impacted all plans in 2020.

I doubt we disagree much here.  It's semantics.  But you are pretty consistent in pointing out when people state things as fact that are opinion.  I was just doing the same.

At any rate, as much as I loathe the Angelos family, I think John Angelos has to get credit for hiring Elias.   It is still to be determined whether Elias can navigate from a competitive standpoint, but the rebuilding and development questions have largely been answered.

I'm including 2018 in the 100 loss seasons.  So 2018-2021 would be four years.  I've already stated that I think 2022 was supposed to be a 90 loss or so season, some forward progression but still getting a relativity high pick.

[geschinger]

11 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think the plan was to collect as many #1 picks as he could from at least 2019-2021 ( I think 2022 was supposed to be closer to 90 losses). 

Yes they ended up with the #2 pick one year and the covid year messed them up and they ended up with the fifth pick that year.  They sure didn't win more games in 2019 by dint of roster construction.  You can't look at the team they sent out there in 2019 and say with a straight face that the goal wasn't to get another #1 pick, they didn't see the Tigers coming in and losing 114. 

As for not getting 100 loses in 2020?  Kinda hard to lose 100 in a 60 game season.  The way that team was trending I do think they would have lost 100 over 162.

Agree with this premise.  I think it would have been considered a good result and "right on plan" had they only won 15 games more in 2022 that 2021 and then another 15 game improvement in 2023.  

While it is the same thing - I think the goal was maximizing draft pool resources.  I suspect the disappointment if there was any about Detroit getting #1 overall was about losing ~$500k of draft pool money to work with than not getting first pick.

[DrungoHazewood]

17 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Was the main reason he lucked into Elias the fact that Elias was advocating a massive cut cutting teardown?

The best part of online fandom is the part that attributes all success to luck and unintended consequences of subterfuge, and all failures to rank incompetence.

[forphase1]

20 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The best part of online fandom is the part that attributes all success to luck and unintended consequences of subterfuge, and all failures to rank incompetence.

Or often the direct opposite, where all failures are just bad luck and all successes are proof of geniuses.  Unfortunately both sides off all issues (politics, sports fandom, pro management or anti management, etc) tend to take extreme stances like this, at least by those really invested emotionally.  And,  honestly, most of us are probably a bit prone to act the same way from time to time. 

[Tony-OH]

23 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

 

Dan sticking it to Angelos is awesome!

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Dan sticking it to Angelos is awesome!

He’s still waiting on that invite to open the books.