Could Elias call up our 19-year old SS phenom?

[sportsfan8703]

Step away from the ledge…

A 26 game roster for a playoff series is a huge roster. Here’s how I see it shaking out…

Game One SP - Grayson

Game Two SP - Flaherty 

Game Three SP - Bradish

Game Four SP - Means(esp if we are at home)

Bullpen(8) Bautista, Cano, Wells, Kremer, Baker, Irvin, Hall, Perez

1. Mullins L CF

2. Adley S C

3. Gunnar L 3B

4. Santa S RF

5. O’Hearn L 1B

6. Mountcastle R DH

7. Frazier L 2B

8. Hays R LF

9. Holliday L SS

Hicks, Urias, Westburg, McCann, Mateo

[Frobby]

I wish I knew more about the state of Holliday’s defensive skills.  We can all look at the box scores and stat sheets and see he’s hit the snot out of the ball at low A, hi A and AA with few hiccups.  He does seem like the rare breed of player who could keep his head above water offensively (not necessarily thrive) at the major league level at age 19 despite his lack of experience.

What’s less clear to me is where his defensive game is at.  I think we know he has the tools to be a solid player on the dirt.  I don’t think we really know whether those tools are sufficiently developed, and how he compares right now defensively to the other players on the major league team and in AAA.  I just haven’t seen much detail about his defensive prowess.  Statistically, he looks to be steady (not many errors) but it’s tough to tell about his range based on limited MiL data.  

[sportsfan8703]

4 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I wish I knew more about the state of Holliday’s defensive skills.  We can all look at the box scores and stat sheets and see he’s hit the snot out of the ball at low A, hi A and AA with few hiccups.  He does seem like the rare breed of player who could keep his head above water offensively (not necessarily thrive) at the major league level at age 19 despite his lack of experience.

What’s less clear to me is where his defensive game is at.  I think we know he has the tools to be a solid player on the dirt.  I don’t think we really know whether those tools are sufficiently developed, and how he compares right now defensively to the other players on the major league team and in AAA.  I just haven’t seen much detail about his defensive prowess.  Statistically, he looks to be steady (not many errors) but it’s tough to tell about his range based on limited MiL data.  

What’s Jim Thome doing nowadays?  Remember Buck sent him to Bowie to scout Manny. 

[brucewayne]

10 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I wish I knew more about the state of Holliday’s defensive skills.  We can all look at the box scores and stat sheets and see he’s hit the snot out of the ball at low A, hi A and AA with few hiccups.  He does seem like the rare breed of player who could keep his head above water offensively (not necessarily thrive) at the major league level at age 19 despite his lack of experience.

What’s less clear to me is where his defensive game is at.  I think we know he has the tools to be a solid player on the dirt.  I don’t think we really know whether those tools are sufficiently developed, and how he compares right now defensively to the other players on the major league team and in AAA.  I just haven’t seen much detail about his defensive prowess.  Statistically, he looks to be steady (not many errors) but it’s tough to tell about his range based on limited MiL data.  

Don't know how much stock you put into Keith Law's evaluations. For what it is worth Keith Law said Holliday "Is a true MLB Shortstop". Which honestly surprised me because I've thought he profiled more as a 2B in the MLB. Law isn't the gospel, but he is a highly respected baseball guy. Most minor league Shortstops cannot play a MLB Shortstop. 

[sportsfan8703]

Holliday is going to play next year 100%. So with that being said, then he needs to be on the OD roster so if he does win ROY, then we can win the draft pick. So we can take a look at him this September and see what we have since he’ll be in our OD lineup next year anyways. 

Today through 8/31 - AA

8/31 - Added to 40 man for postseason eligibility 

9/1 - AAA

9/15 - MLB. 

[brucewayne]

5 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Holliday is going to play next year 100%. So with that being said, then he needs to be on the OD roster so if he does win ROY, then we can win the draft pick. So we can take a look at him this September and see what we have since he’ll be in our OD lineup next year anyways. 

Today through 8/31 - AA

8/31 - Added to 40 man for postseason eligibility 

9/1 - AAA

9/15 - MLB. 

Call him up August 31. If he fails, he fails. If he holds his own then great. Go for the World Series. God knows he can't be any worse than Cowser has been. Dude has flat out sucked ass in his time on the MLB team. If Cowser is here put Holliday here. 

[SilverRocket]

5 hours ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

All that said, I remember when Alex Rodriguez was called up at such a young age (18) and took the league by storm, so I really like the idea of an Orioles player doing the same thing at such a young age. 

A-Rod was not impressive in the big leagues in his age-18 (17 games, .445 OPS) or age-19 (48 games, .672 OPS) years. It was his age-20 year, his third attempt, where he finally broke out. In that age-19 year, he played 54 games in AAA with a 1.065 OPS but it didn't translate to MLB yet. I'd like to see Holliday get promoted to AAA soon, but I'm not confident that he would put up a .750 OPS immediately if he were called up right now.

Anecdotally, it also worries me a bit that a lot of Holliday's highlights aren't really spectacular hits. He'll put up a 4 or 5-hit day but two of them are of the bloop/seeing-eye/infield variety that are less likely to get through an MLB-level defense. See the third and fourth hits here:

 

[Alasdaire]

4 minutes ago, SilverRocket said:

A-Rod was not impressive in the big leagues in his age-18 (17 games, .445 OPS) or age-19 (48 games, .672 OPS) years. It was his age-20 year, his third attempt, where he finally broke out. In that age-19 year, he played 54 games in AAA with a 1.065 OPS but it didn't translate to MLB yet. I'd like to see Holliday get promoted to AAA soon, but I'm not confident that he would put up a .750 OPS immediately if he were called up right now.

Anecdotally, it also worries me a bit that a lot of Holliday's highlights aren't really spectacular hits. He'll put up a 4 or 5-hit day but two of them are of the bloop/seeing-eye/infield variety that are less likely to get through an MLB-level defense. See the third and fourth hits here:

 

"Worry" and "Holliday" don't belong in the same sentence

Even if what you're saying is true and two of his five hits are balls that an infielder/outfielder gets to in the big leagues, that's still a 3/5 night in the MLB. Prospects aren't expected to maintain the same production in the MLB as they are the minors.

The fact that he puts the ball in play at such a prolific rate is something he should be commended for. He always has a high BAbip, but his average is also consistently high, so it's not an instance where you can say he's getting lucky.

Is he a destroyer of worlds? No, but he's also 19 and going to get much stronger. And even now, his ISO suggests there's plenty of raw power there.

[banks703]

4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Step away from the ledge…

A 26 game roster for a playoff series is a huge roster. Here’s how I see it shaking out…

Game One SP - Grayson

Game Two SP - Flaherty 

Game Three SP - Bradish

Game Four SP - Means(esp if we are at home)

Bullpen(8) Bautista, Cano, Wells, Kremer, Baker, Irvin, Hall, Perez

1. Mullins L CF

2. Adley S C

3. Gunnar L 3B

4. Santa S RF

5. O’Hearn L 1B

6. Mountcastle R DH

7. Frazier L 2B

8. Hays R LF

9. Holliday L SS

Hicks, Urias, Westburg, McCann, Mateo

They’re not moving Gunnar off of short for Holliday, especially not this year in the middle of a division chase and playoff run. Zero chance. 

[SouthRider]

Hit 'em where they ain't.   Very impressive bat/ball control. 

Although I  doubt we see Holliday this season, it makes sense to maximize the amount of time he, Adley, and Gunnar can play together.  Sadly, I don't see JA opening up the checkbook, ever.  This will ultimately lead to Elias' departure,  and once he is gone so too will be these 'good ole days' .  

 

[banks703]

Jackson Holliday can get out of bed and hit major league pitching. I don’t think it’s outside the realm of possibilities that he could be called up. I’m just not sure that I see that happening before September and I don’t know what they would do with Urias, JW, Mateo and Frazier to make room for Holliday. They’ve made it all but crystal clear that they aren’t moving on from Mateo so someone else would have to go and I don’t see who else could be moved to make room for him.

Plus, as noted .. he’s not the defensive player that Gunnar is. They’re not moving the superior defender off of the most important infield position.

[sportsfan8703]

28 minutes ago, SilverRocket said:

A-Rod was not impressive in the big leagues in his age-18 (17 games, .445 OPS) or age-19 (48 games, .672 OPS) years. It was his age-20 year, his third attempt, where he finally broke out. In that age-19 year, he played 54 games in AAA with a 1.065 OPS but it didn't translate to MLB yet. I'd like to see Holliday get promoted to AAA soon, but I'm not confident that he would put up a .750 OPS immediately if he were called up right now.

Anecdotally, it also worries me a bit that a lot of Holliday's highlights aren't really spectacular hits. He'll put up a 4 or 5-hit day but two of them are of the bloop/seeing-eye/infield variety that are less likely to get through an MLB-level defense. See the third and fourth hits here:

 

Everybody puts up a .800 OPS. Even Maverick Handley and Robbie Glenndenning. Idk how much we’d learn by Holliday in AAA this year. We’d get more of an idea of his defense. 

[banks703]

34 minutes ago, SilverRocket said:

A-Rod was not impressive in the big leagues in his age-18 (17 games, .445 OPS) or age-19 (48 games, .672 OPS) years. It was his age-20 year, his third attempt, where he finally broke out. In that age-19 year, he played 54 games in AAA with a 1.065 OPS but it didn't translate to MLB yet. I'd like to see Holliday get promoted to AAA soon, but I'm not confident that he would put up a .750 OPS immediately if he were called up right now.

Anecdotally, it also worries me a bit that a lot of Holliday's highlights aren't really spectacular hits. He'll put up a 4 or 5-hit day but two of them are of the bloop/seeing-eye/infield variety that are less likely to get through an MLB-level defense. See the third and fourth hits here:

 

All respect in the world to you and Jackson Holliday. He’s a great talent but comparing him to Alex Rodriguez is absurd and will disappoint a lot of people if they latch onto that. Holliday is an elite prospect but he’s not on the ARod level. He’s not on Manny’s level.

Sorry.

He is likely to have a great career but he’s not going to have ARod’s career and probably won’t have Manny’s career. Nothing wrong with that of course. I’m ecstatic that he’s in the O’s system but this is the reality of who he is as a player.

As far was worrying about the quality of 19 year old Jackson Holliday’s hits at Bowie, where he’s like three and a half years younger than the average player… lol 

Edited August 12, 2023 by banks703

[banks703]

3 hours ago, brucewayne said:

Call him up August 31. If he fails, he fails. If he holds his own then great. Go for the World Series. God knows he can't be any worse than Cowser has been. Dude has flat out sucked ass in his time on the MLB team. If Cowser is here put Holliday here. 

Wait, aren’t you whatshisface? The poster that got banned last week or two weeks back who showed back up under this handle?

The tone of these posts and the cluelessness of them seem eerily familiar. 

[spleen1015]

I don't think he gets promoted just because Elias doesn't promote that way. He likes to see players do well at each level before promotions. J-Holl could be an exception I guess.