John Angelos continues to remind us how awful he is

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't know, that's a bit too complicated for him to have come up with on his own. Don't you think?

Also, doesn't he know that the fans think he's an idiot and won't go to bat for him? Unless maybe he can pull the "moving' to Nashville unless you write me a bigger check" card.

I don't think he is self aware enough to think the fans don't love him.

[Hank Scorpio]

https://x.com/billfromdashore/status/1693613314285179002?s=46

[DirtyBird]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

John Angelos is either very, very smart or very, very lucky.

I don't think too many people would disagree that Peter Angelos loves Baltimore.  Born and raised here he became rich in Baltimore with a successful law firm winning asbestos cases.   Then used some of that money to become majority owner of the O's and keep it in Baltimore.  He wanted to win the World Series in the worst way.   Came close in 1996-7 and in 2014 but never realize his baseball dream.  

The MLB system allowed rich clubs to buy up the good players outspending the mid and small market teams by a large margin.   Peter got the team up to 167m by overspending on players while stopping spending on international scouting and the minor leagues.   The O's lost high draft choices in  order to sign Free Agents.   It didn't work.

What did happen to Peter was that MLB came and took half of the drawing area when they put the Nationals in Washington.     Where he had an attendance of 3M at one point, after the Nationals came the attandance drop to half that.  He fought it hard.  Even doing a major no-no in suing MLB in court.  Something that owners are just never supposed to do. And not making friends doing it.

This is the environment that John Angelos took over in 2018.   Team was bad and expensive. MLB was mad at the O's ownership.  The GM and Manager had to go.

So he had Duquette start to tear the team down before he left.  Tried to stop the bleeding.  Then in the fall of 2018 he interviewed for a new GM.   Mike Elias was one of the interviewee.  Elias told him he had a way to win a World Series vs New York, Boston and the others while lowering player payroll.

All it would would cost John was to allow Elias to build a first class player development, analytics and scouting system including international.   John bought it.   Winning the World Series and raking in the money by building the team on the cheap.   Like Houston and Tampa but on a Tampa budget.

Instead of spending on Free Agents, trading players as they get close to Free Agency and restocking the minors.

And now 4 years later its working.  John stayed the course on the rebuild.  Didn't fold when the losses built up year after year.  And now he has a first place team, the best farm system and the 2nd lowest payroll in MLB.   Smart, smart move hiring Mike Elias and staying out of his way as he built what he had promised.

But John still has a problem.   He wants a legacy of building more than a baseball team.   He wants to build an entertainment environment like Atlanta has.  He wants to bring that to Baltimore and he wants the lasting credit for doing it.

Yes, he puts his foot in his mouth trying to explain it to the public.  Trying to tell people what Elias had told him is the plan.  Would it be better if he kept quiet and let the Elias plan play out.  Yes, probably.  But has messy as it was to lose of years to get to having a playoff team, John may go through some more mess trying to get to his state of the art entertainment environment in downtown  Baltimore.

Looking at where the O's are now is John smart or lucky.   I don't think we can say that the state of the O's is anything but going where John and Elias planned it would go.  Over the next few years the dream of a World Series might even be realized.

This is longer than the NYT article 

[Hallas]

17 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yea, last year Forbes estimated that the O's profit was over $60M and the player payroll was about $30M.

The rev share payouts are public knowledge: ~60 million from national TV deals and ~40m media rights revenue sharing.  On top of that we know MASN operates at a profit and the profit sharing is immune from rev sharing calculations.  Even if you assume that the team needs the rev share subsidy to operate he must think his audience has the intelligence of a rock to try and sell us on the idea that he can't increase payroll a little bit to sign these guys.

[Malike]

9 minutes ago, wildcard said:

John Angelos is either very, very smart or very, very lucky.

I don't think too many people would disagree that Peter Angelos loves Baltimore.  Born and raised here he became rich in Baltimore with a successful law firm winning asbestos cases.   Then used some of that money to become majority owner of the O's and keep it in Baltimore.  He wanted to win the World Series in the worst way.   Came close in 1996-7 and in 2014 but never realize his baseball dream.  

The MLB system allowed rich clubs to buy up the good players outspending the mid and small market teams by a large margin.   Peter got the team up to 167m by overspending on players while stopping spending on international scouting and the minor leagues.   The O's lost high draft choices in  order to sign Free Agents.   It didn't work.

What did happen to Peter was that MLB came and took half of the drawing area when they put the Nationals in Washington.     Where he had an attendance of 3M at one point, after the Nationals came the attandance drop to half that.  He fought it hard.  Even doing a major no-no in suing MLB in court.  Something that owners are just never supposed to do. And not making friends doing it.

This is the environment that John Angelos took over in 2018.   Team was bad and expensive. MLB was mad at the O's ownership.  The GM and Manager had to go.

So he had Duquette start to tear the team down before he left.  Tried to stop the bleeding.  Then in the fall of 2018 he interviewed for a new GM.   Mike Elias was one of the interviewee.  Elias told him he had a way to win a World Series vs New York, Boston and the others while lowering player payroll.

All it would would cost John was to allow Elias to build a first class player development, analytics and scouting system including international.   John bought it.   Winning the World Series and raking in the money by building the team on the cheap.   Like Houston and Tampa but on a Tampa budget.

Instead of spending on Free Agents, trading players as they get close to Free Agency and restocking the minors.

And now 4 years later its working.  John stayed the course on the rebuild.  Didn't fold when the losses built up year after year.  And now he has a first place team, the best farm system and the 2nd lowest payroll in MLB.   Smart, smart move hiring Mike Elias and staying out of his way as he built what he had promised.

But John still has a problem.   He wants a legacy of building more than a baseball team.   He wants to build an entertainment environment like Atlanta has.  He wants to bring that to Baltimore and he wants the lasting credit for doing it.

Yes, he puts his foot in his mouth trying to explain it to the public.  Trying to tell people what Elias had told him is the plan.  Would it be better if he kept quiet and let the Elias plan play out.  Yes, probably.  But has messy as it was to lose of years to get to having a playoff team, John may go through some more mess trying to get to his state of the art entertainment environment in downtown  Baltimore.

Looking at where the O's are now is John smart or lucky.   I don't think we can say that the state of the O's is anything but going where John and Elias planned it would go.  Over the next few years the dream of a World Series might even be realized.

I really loved my goldfish when I was 7 but I didn't know how to properly care for it, so it died. I honestly loved it, though.

[tntoriole]

6 minutes ago, wildcard said:

John Angelos is either very, very smart or very, very lucky.

I don't think too many people would disagree that Peter Angelos loves Baltimore.  Born and raised here he became rich in Baltimore with a successful law firm winning asbestos cases.   Then used some of that money to become majority owner of the O's and keep it in Baltimore.  He wanted to win the World Series in the worst way.   Came close in 1996-7 and in 2014 but never realize his baseball dream.  

The MLB system allowed rich clubs to buy up the good players outspending the mid and small market teams by a large margin.   Peter got the team up to 167m by overspending on players while stopping spending on international scouting and the minor leagues.   The O's lost high draft choices in  order to sign Free Agents.   It didn't work.

What did happen to Peter was that MLB came and took half of the drawing area when they put the Nationals in Washington.     Where he had an attendance of 3M at one point, after the Nationals came the attandance drop to half that.  He fought it hard.  Even doing a major no-no in suing MLB in court.  Something that owners are just never supposed to do. And not making friends doing it.

This is the environment that John Angelos took over in 2018.   Team was bad and expensive. MLB was mad at the O's ownership.  The GM and Manager had to go.

So he had Duquette start to tear the team down before he left.  Tried to stop the bleeding.  Then in the fall of 2018 he interviewed for a new GM.   Mike Elias was one of the interviewee.  Elias told him he had a way to win a World Series vs New York, Boston and the others while lowering player payroll.

All it would would cost John was to allow Elias to build a first class player development, analytics and scouting system including international.   John bought it.   Winning the World Series and raking in the money by building the team on the cheap.   Like Houston and Tampa but on a Tampa budget.

Instead of spending on Free Agents, trading players as they get close to Free Agency and restocking the minors.

And now 4 years later its working.  John stayed the course on the rebuild.  Didn't fold when the losses built up year after year.  And now he has a first place team, the best farm system and the 2nd lowest payroll in MLB.   Smart, smart move hiring Mike Elias and staying out of his way as he built what he had promised.

But John still has a problem.   He wants a legacy of building more than a baseball team.   He wants to build an entertainment environment like Atlanta has.  He wants to bring that to Baltimore and he wants the lasting credit for doing it.

Yes, he puts his foot in his mouth trying to explain it to the public.  Trying to tell people what Elias had told him is the plan.  Would it be better if he kept quiet and let the Elias plan play out.  Yes, probably.  But has messy as it was to lose of years to get to having a playoff team, John may go through some more mess trying to get to his state of the art entertainment environment in downtown  Baltimore.

Looking at where the O's are now is John smart or lucky.   I don't think we can say that the state of the O's is anything but going where John and Elias planned it would go.  Over the next few years the dream of a World Series might even be realized.

Yes, he was lucky to be born to a billionaire father.  John will not be allowed by majority of owners to move to Nashville or anyplace else before he must sign a new lease or risk sanctions due to not having a MLB required venue.  He knows it, MD representatives know it, MLB knows it. 
 

And he is acting all poor mouth about his business once again receiving hundreds of millions in taxpayer money only for the continued value growth of  his asset which you know has ummmmm .. increased a bit in value since his old man bought it. 
 

This country’s priorities and public policies of corporate welfare and catering to the billionaire class will one day be addressed in a more dramatic way other than just catering to billionaire fantasies and payoffs and politics. 

Nepotism is luck, not smart. 

 

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, Malike said:

Interesting, I was reading about the lawsuits amongst the family and read this and was curious. The "While Georgia Angelos stands to inherit the franchise tax-free upon her husband's death" is the confusing part. I know the kids would have to pay an estate tax, but I'm not certain about a spouse.

Edit: Yeah there is an actual tax law that says spouses do not have to pay estate taxes.

Both Barker and Kaplan suggest that any sale of the franchise, if it were to arise, could wait until after Peter Angelos passes away. While Georgia Angelos stands to inherit the franchise tax free upon her husband’s death, Louis Angelos’ court filings suggest a sale while Peter Angelos is still alive would have “a sizable tax hit.”

I can't see the spouse having to pay estate taxes because it's really half her team already by MD law. 

[OriolesMagic83]

16 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

So the teams above 250 million payroll in 2023 are Mets, Yankees, Padres with Dodgers and Rangers just under 250. 
 

Which of those teams owners and markets are going to want an Elias type rebuild?  Adding and signing big name free agents or highvaluebig risk trades have not been demonstrated by Elias in Houston or here. 
 

None of those organizations are currently in top 5 farm systems either.  Mets are 11th and MFYs 21st 

So Elias' ability to build a top farm system would only help a team with a low payroll?  It seems like the Dodgers have a top farm system just about every year and it's a big help to their winning teams year in and out.  Elias has had a lot of success with prospects who were not picked at the top of the 1st round also.

[Malike]

11 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I can't see the spouse having to pay estate taxes because it's really half her team already by MD law. 

Yeah, I was confused by people saying they would have to sell the team when Peter passes, I suspected a spouse didn't have to pay estate tax, thanks.

[TonySoprano]

2 hours ago, accinfo said:

At John Angelos’ request, Maryland officials considered filing antitrust suit against MLB to aid Orioles during MASN dispute

 

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-angelos-orioles-mlb-masn-suit-20230821-jhbj7u3fcrhebgybiiizkz6wve-story.html

I will throw this in this thread.  This is in the Sun that Angelos asked the State of MD to sue baseball to aid him in the MASN suit.  I will give him this he has big kahones.  I give the state credit for not swatting at that hornets nest.  We could be know as the state that tried to take its NFL team by eminent domain and sue Baseball in an antitrust suit.  

Like I said earlier, ask Tom Kelso how that worked out for him.

[Tony-OH]

36 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

MD is broke, looking at a 1BB deficit by 2028, but he wants to pass out $600MM to a petulant child.  Not sure how that is going to work. 

Gov. Wes Moore: Maryland must reckon with structural challenges facing state economy, budget - WTOP News

 

That article looked like it was written by a Moore staffer. Good Lord.

Either way, Angelos may want to take the cash offered because he's not getting more if the budget issues continue in the state.

 

[wildcard]

13 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I can't see the spouse having to pay estate taxes because it's really half her team already by MD law. 

Mike Ilitch, owner of the Tigers, died  in 2017.   The Ilitch family still owns the team.   His wife Marian is the vice Chairman of Ilitch Holdings and his son runs the team.

[Tony-OH]

36 minutes ago, wildcard said:

John Angelos is either very, very smart or very, very lucky.

I don't think too many people would disagree that Peter Angelos loves Baltimore.  Born and raised here he became rich in Baltimore with a successful law firm winning asbestos cases.   Then used some of that money to become majority owner of the O's and keep it in Baltimore.  He wanted to win the World Series in the worst way.   Came close in 1996-7 and in 2014 but never realize his baseball dream.  

The MLB system allowed rich clubs to buy up the good players outspending the mid and small market teams by a large margin.   Peter got the team up to 167m by overspending on players while stopping spending on international, scouting and the minor leagues.   The O's lost high draft choices in  order to sign Free Agents.   It didn't work.

What did happen to Peter was that MLB came and took half of the drawing area when they put the Nationals in Washington.     Where he had an attendance of 3M at one point, after the Nationals came the attandance drop to half that.  He fought it hard.  Even doing a major no-no in suing MLB in court.  Something that owners are just never supposed to do. And not making friends doing it.

This is the environment that John Angelos took over in 2018.   Team was bad and expensive. MLB was mad at the O's ownership.  The GM and Manager had to go.

So he had Duquette start to tear the team down before he left.  Tried to stop the bleeding.  Then in the fall of 2018 he interviewed for a new GM.   Mike Elias was one of the interviewee.  Elias told him he had a way to win a World Series vs New York, Boston and the others while lowering player payroll.

All it would would cost John was to allow Elias to build a first class player development, analytics and scouting system including international.   John bought it.   Winning the World Series and raking in the money by building the team on the cheap.   Like Houston and Tampa but on a Tampa budget.

Instead of spending on Free Agents, trading players as they get close to Free Agency and restocking the minors.

And now 4 years later its working.  John stayed the course on the rebuild.  Didn't fold when the losses built up year after year.  And now he has a first place team, the best farm system and the 2nd lowest payroll in MLB.   Smart, smart move hiring Mike Elias and staying out of his way as he built what he had promised.

But John still has a problem.   He wants a legacy of building more than a baseball team.   He wants to build an entertainment environment like Atlanta has.  He wants to bring that to Baltimore and he wants the lasting credit for doing it.

Yes, he puts his foot in his mouth trying to explain it to the public.  Trying to tell people what Elias had told him is the plan.  Would it be better if he kept quiet and let the Elias plan play out.  Yes, probably.  But has messy as it was to lose of years to get to having a playoff team, John may go through some more mess trying to get to his state of the art entertainment environment in downtown  Baltimore.

Looking at where the O's are now is John smart or lucky.   I don't think we can say that the state of the O's is anything but going where John and Elias planned it would go.  Over the next few years the dream of a World Series might even be realized.

And there we have it. Our first pro John Angelos post. Somebody had to do it. I think Tradeangelos' head just exploded somewhere though.

[waroriole]

11 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Mike Ilitch, owner of the Tigers, died  in 2017.   The Ilitch family still owns the team.   His wife Marian is the vice Chairman of Ilitch Holdings and his son runs the team.

He also owned Little Caesars and the Red Wings. His family had other income sources besides the wife’s country music career. 

[SemperFi]

6 hours ago, TradeAngelos said:

They absolutely have NOT been using "small market" that long. It used to be "middle market" or something like that until recently. And right, no one thinks like this I'm just making it up. These people are STILL all over the place. You want me to pollute this thread with endless OH poster quotes saying essentially the same thing? I won't torture you like that, but I could. 

But how do you define market?  Most on here and some in the media use population or cable penetration but those are really obsolete.  The most effective way is to look at population within a 30 minute commute, which puts the Orioles solidly in the middle certainly not a "small market".

Although the attached is dated the data has not shifted that dramatically.  The interesting thing for me was the opportunity to drive weekday game traffic, which runs counter to Angelos's plan to keep fans downtown which to me is more of weekend thing.

https://tinyurl.com/2wx4d68z