If Elias told Holliday right now that he was in line to play 2B/backup CF?

[CaptainRedbeard]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Cause he's kind of fast.  

I'm with you though, I don't really get it.  But whatever.  

I don’t think it’s necessarily the optimal path forward but there’s plenty of reasons to think we may see Westburg get tried out in the OF.

1. He’s fast, yes. And not just kind of fast - by sprint speed at least he is “plus-CF” level fast.  

2. All of Mullins, Cowser, Kjerstad, Beavers and Bradfield are left handed. Those players will likely be the 3 starting OF (& maybe DH) during much of Westburg’s tenure. Santander and Hays are only here for the next 1 and 2 years, respectively, if not traded before then. Hopefully whoever ends up the starting OF won’t need to be strictly platooned, but it makes sense that they will be complemented by at least one right handed 4th/5th OF.

3. The Orioles like positional flexibility and already had Westburg play some LF in AAA. 

4. Norby may be a righty 4th/5th OF if he’s not traded, but he’s not nearly as fast as Westburg and thus maybe not well suited for LF in OPACY. Neither really have the arm for RF, but Norby less so. Westburg probably could play RF with the short porch in OPACY if they don’t trust him in LF, but not Norby. 

5. The Orioles SHOULD make a trade but that doesn’t mean they will. If they keep Ortiz, Westburg will need to play some non-2B/3B for him and Ortiz to get regular ABs given Henderson and Holliday will be full time. And even if they trade Ortiz, Mayo may still play 3B. Or they keep Urias/Mateo. Or they actually give Norby a shot. There’s a lot of scenarios where it may be helpful for Westburg to have OF flexibility. 

[DirtyBird]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

Cause he's kind of fast.  

I'm with you though, I don't really get it.  But whatever.  

Or because the ROY has a spot on the left side of the infield, the #1 prospect in baseball is an infielder, and there is another prospect who is the best infield glove in the system.

[Moose Milligan]

16 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Or because the ROY has a spot on the left side of the infield, the #1 prospect in baseball is an infielder, and there is another prospect who is the best infield glove in the system.

We're not keeping all these guys.

  

[Moose Milligan]

25 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

 There’s a lot of scenarios where it may be helpful for Westburg to have OF flexibility. 

Or they can just trade Westburg.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

I’m giving Mullins something of a Mullins-agan (see what I did there?).  I think the injuries really disrupted his season and may have still been bothering him down the stretch.  To recap, Mullins got off to a slow start this year but then got hot and had hit .908 OPS in the 42 games prior to his first IL trip.  Then he had a .387 OPS in his first 10 games back, but heated up again and had a 1.167 OPS in 6 games before his second IL stint.  He never really did heat up after returning.   So both times he got hurt, it disrupted a pretty good hot streak.  He was able to recover after an Initial cold spell the first time, not so much the second time.  I feel like if he’s healthy in 2024, his offense will return to form.  (Meaning, 107 OPS+ or so, as in 2022.  His OPS was the same the last two years, but 2023 was a much better hitting environment league-wide so his OPS+ slipped from 107 to 100 this year.)

This is how I feel about Mullins. We also don't know how much that second injury affected him even though he was running well in the outfield. He never quite got his timing back after that second IL stint. 

I'd like to have a right-handed hitting compliment to Mullins though I feel they may allow to compete for that role. If Hicks comes back for some reason, then I think this all a moot point as they will use him a backup there. 

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

They could just as easily leave Gunnar at 3B and put Holiday at SS

Gunnar's arm is stronger.  He can through runners out from the hole which makes his range better.

[CaptainRedbeard]

35 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Or they can just trade Westburg.

Sure, it would be better if they are able to trade Westburg or Ortiz in a deal for a SP. But a trade that makes sense may not materialize, that’s not entirely within the Orioles’ control. The trade market has been very sparse in the entirety of the expanded wildcard era. If there isn’t a trade then Westburg playing some OF is a real possibility for numerous reasons. 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, CaptainRedbeard said:

Sure, it would be better if they are able to trade Westburg or Ortiz in a deal for a SP. But a trade that makes sense may not materialize, that’s not entirely within the Orioles’ control. The trade market has been very sparse in the entirety of the expanded wildcard era. If there isn’t a trade then Westburg playing some OF is a real possibility for numerous reasons. 

Yep, who knows.

[Roll Tide]

30 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Gunnar's arm is stronger.  He can through runners out from the hole which makes his range better.

They have Holidays Arm rated at 55/70 (MLB.com). I don’t remember how they graded Gunnar’s. Are we sure or are we assuming?

[CaptainRedbeard]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yep, who knows.

Yes, so there’s a decent chance that Westburg could play some OF, and not just because he’s fast. And that’s why it’s interesting to consider when thinking about the direction of the offseason and the next several years. 

[SemperFi]

3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

They have Holidays Arm rated at 55/70 (MLB.com). I don’t remember how they graded Gunnar’s. Are we sure or are we assuming?

Gunnar was a 60 but they graded Holliday higher in the field 55/50. 

[Moose Milligan]

3 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

Yes, so there’s a decent chance that Westburg could play some OF, and not just because he’s fast. And that’s why it’s interesting to consider when thinking about the direction of the offseason and the next several years. 

I really don't find it that interesting, to be honest.  

Maybe I'm just not in the mood for all of the guessing/hypotheticals before the free agency, Hot Stove and the rest of the off-season.  There's still baseball on, but it's fair that none of us are as interested since our team got bounced...but all of the what-ifs and trying to figure where these prospects are going to play and what free agents we should consider and what trades we should make aren't interesting to me at all.  Not until some deals start going down and some rumors start flying, at least.  To steal a page out of @Frobby's playbook, call me when the bullets start flying.

It's also clear to me that some of these prospects and young players like Westburg are going to get traded.  The gymnastics that are taking place into trying to squeeze Norby, Mayo, Ortiz, and Westburg into an infield where Henderson and Holliday are also plugged in is getting a bit silly considering the holes in the pitching staff that need to be addressed.

Like I said, I don't find moving Westburg to the outfield interesting in the slightest.   Not when Cowser's still unproven and Kjerstad looked decent during his short time in Baltimore, plus Mullins holding down CF until Bradford is ready.  I mean, if Westburg ends up out there a little bit, fine.  But I don't find that interesting.

Let's get one thing clear though:  The only reason he'd be considered for an outfield spot is because he's fast and athletic.  

[CaptainRedbeard]

12 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I really don't find it that interesting, to be honest.  

Maybe I'm just not in the mood for all of the guessing/hypotheticals before the free agency, Hot Stove and the rest of the off-season.  There's still baseball on, but it's fair that none of us are as interested since our team got bounced...but all of the what-ifs and trying to figure where these prospects are going to play and what free agents we should consider and what trades we should make aren't interesting to me at all.  Not until some deals start going down and some rumors start flying, at least.  To steal a page out of @Frobby's playbook, call me when the bullets start flying.

It's also clear to me that some of these prospects and young players like Westburg are going to get traded.  The gymnastics that are taking place into trying to squeeze Norby, Mayo, Ortiz, and Westburg into an infield where Henderson and Holliday are also plugged in is getting a bit silly considering the holes in the pitching staff that need to be addressed.

Like I said, I don't find moving Westburg to the outfield interesting in the slightest.   Not when Cowser's still unproven and Kjerstad looked decent during his short time in Baltimore, plus Mullins holding down CF until Bradford is ready.  I mean, if Westburg ends up out there a little bit, fine.  But I don't find that interesting.

Let's get one thing clear though:  The only reason he'd be considered for an outfield spot is because he's fast and athletic.  

Fast, athletic, right handed (given the many lefty OF in the org), already played there in the minors, history of the Orioles valuing defensive flexibility, and there’s a lot of moving pieces that are difficult to predict.  All of those factors matter, even if the most important factors are who they trade amongst Westburg/Ortiz/Mayo/Norby (if any) and whether Mayo and Norby can actually play 3B and 2B at a MLB level.

But to each their own on what’s interesting. For me at least talking about potential team building direction is more interesting than other topics and only made more interesting once the bullets start flying, but that’s just me. 

[Sports Guy]

48 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I really don't find it that interesting, to be honest.  

Maybe I'm just not in the mood for all of the guessing/hypotheticals before the free agency, Hot Stove and the rest of the off-season.  There's still baseball on, but it's fair that none of us are as interested since our team got bounced...but all of the what-ifs and trying to figure where these prospects are going to play and what free agents we should consider and what trades we should make aren't interesting to me at all.  Not until some deals start going down and some rumors start flying, at least.  To steal a page out of @Frobby's playbook, call me when the bullets start flying.

It's also clear to me that some of these prospects and young players like Westburg are going to get traded.  The gymnastics that are taking place into trying to squeeze Norby, Mayo, Ortiz, and Westburg into an infield where Henderson and Holliday are also plugged in is getting a bit silly considering the holes in the pitching staff that need to be addressed.

Like I said, I don't find moving Westburg to the outfield interesting in the slightest.   Not when Cowser's still unproven and Kjerstad looked decent during his short time in Baltimore, plus Mullins holding down CF until Bradford is ready.  I mean, if Westburg ends up out there a little bit, fine.  But I don't find that interesting.

Let's get one thing clear though:  The only reason he'd be considered for an outfield spot is because he's fast and athletic.  

All of this is right. I don’t get the square peg, round hole thoughts when it’s not needed and when we need to use guys to help other areas of need. 
 

People may hate to hear this but these players are assets. Sometimes you keep an asset and sometimes you use that asset for another reason.

 

[Moose Milligan]

15 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

All of this is right. I don’t get the square peg, round hole thoughts when it’s not needed and when we need to use guys to help other areas of need. 
 

People may hate to hear this but these players are assets. Sometimes you keep an asset and sometimes you use that asset for another reason.

 

I agree.  Seems like people want to trade prospects but at the same time it's like...NO, not THOSE prospects.  

We're in uncharted territory here, some don't seem to get it...yes, it's nice to have a lot of good prospects, a great farm system...but we can't keep all these guys.